Forces at Work Symposium at the New York Stock Exchange

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Slide: Forces at Work (service mark). Travelers Institute (registered trademark). Travelers. Symposium at the New York Stock Exchange, April 7, 2025. Text: Travelers Institute rings the opening bell at the New York Stock Exchange to celebrate its 15th anniversary and launch of its Forces at Work initiative.

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A group of 16 people applauds behind the stock exchange bell. A backdrop behind them says T.R.V. Listed N.Y.S.E.

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A woman in an indigo blazer at the front of the group rings the large round bell.

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She gives a thumbs up. Slide: Forces at Work (service mark). Travelers Institute (registered trademark). Travelers. Up next: Opening remarks. Keynote: Mental Health in America: A View from the 20th U.S. Surgeon General. The woman in the indigo blazer stands at podium that says, N.Y.S.E. An I.C.E. Exchange. Text: Joan Woodward, President, Travelers Institute, Executive Vice President, Public Policy, Travelers.

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JOAN WOODWARD: We did this to celebrate our 15th anniversary of the Travelers Institute, which is the public policy educational thought leadership arm of Travelers Insurance. And I have the privilege of leading it over the past 16 or so years.

We've been celebrating this 15th-year anniversary for the whole year. And I want to take just a two minute out to talk about what we've done in 15 years. Actually, I'm not going to talk. You're just going to watch a video.

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Text: Travelers Institute (registered trademark). Travelers. 15 Years.

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- 15 years ago, Travelers established the Travelers Institute to lead constructive conversations about today's public policy challenges and tomorrow's needs.

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Text: 1,131 programs. 456,083 attendees. 636 speakers. 192 cities visited. A mosaic of images and logos scrolls by, including tiles of Wednesdays with Woodward (registered trademark), Every Second Matters (registered trademark), She Travels, the Travelers Institute Risk and Resilience podcast, and Small Business Big Opportunity (registered trademark).

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Since then, the Travelers Institute has leveraged our risk management expertise, convening audiences with government and industry thought leaders to share insights, learn together and solve problems.

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Images from video calls and weather monitoring appear around the text, Coastal Resiliency Programs.

Photos of different speakers and the Risk and Resilience podcast logo appear around the text, 432 Economic and Public Policy Programs.

Panels and speakers, along with the Small Business Big Opportunity logo, surround the text, 84 Small Business Programs.

A tornado turns and fire pours from a shed around the text, 22 Disaster Preparedness Programs.

Text: Live from the Insurance Institute for Business and Home Safety (I.B.H.S.) Research Center. The speaker pours water down a sample roof. She fires a machine-made hail stone.

Event photos appear with the headline, The Travelers Institute to Premiere "Overdraft," Documentary About National Debt Crisis, in Charlotte, NC, June 11, 2012. Text: 88 U.S. National Debt Programs.

The film logo, Overdraft, appears over the capitol building. Text: Award-Winning Documentary "Overdraft" has earned 11 distinct honors. Award seals for the Cine Golden Eagle Award 2012, the Gold Winner Prestige Award 2012, and the silver and bronze 34th Annual Telly Awards appear.

Event photos and a piece of literature that says, Cyber, Empowering organizations to tackle evolving cyber threats, appear. On the front of the pamphlet, a person uses a tablet. Text: 68 Cybersecurity Awareness Programs. People bustle around an event hall. Backdrops say, Cyber.

Photos depict demonstrations, presentations, and the speaker and a man signing the hood of a car. Two pieces of literature say, Every Second Matters, and, Insurance Essentials. Text: 104 Distracted Driving Programs. In a demonstration, a car plunges into a solid barrier.

Images from video calls appear with the text, Autonomous Vehicles. A pamphlet is titled, Insuring Autonomy. Text: 16 Autonomous Vehicle Programs.

Photos from presentations appear with literature titled, 2024 CFO Study, and, Leading Your Business into 2025. Three panelists sit in front of a backdrop that says, RiskWorld. Text: 62 Workforce Risk Programs.

Speakers surround the text, 49 Leadership Conversations. The mosaic scrolls by once more.

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We are proud to celebrate 15 years of educational initiatives, and we look forward to driving thoughtful conversations that help us all meet the opportunities ahead.

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Text: Here's to the next 15 years. Travelers Institute (registered trademark). Travelers. 15 Years. The speaker stands at the podium, next to four empty chairs on stage.

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JOAN WOODWARD: So thank you all for being part of the last 15 years. And now we're focused on the next 15 years. We're about the future, and we're future-ready. We're innovative at Travelers, and so our programming has to be innovative as well. We launched our Forces at Work initiative for a reason. The goal is to help us all navigate through the really challenging workforce issues today.

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Text: Forces at Work (service mark). 1. Risk Management and Insurance. 2. Labor Market. 3. Leadership and Management. 4. Talent and Development. 5. Employee Well-Being. New York Stock Exchange. Travelers Institute (registered trademark). Travelers.

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The topics we're going to talk about are on your screen. And over the next two hours, we're going to dig deep into these.

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Agenda. 10:10 AM ET - Keynote Address. 10:30 AM ET- Session 1: Creating a Mental Health Action Plan. 11:30 AM ET - Break. 11:40 AM ET - Session 2: A Leadership View of Today's Labor Market. 12:30 PM ET - Program Concludes.

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We'll start off with a keynote address on the state of mental health in America and why it should matter in the workplace. Then session one, our panel will help us determine, as business leaders, what we can do to promote mental well-being within our organizations. And we'll share insights from workers compensation systems, of which we are the leader in the United States. And our thought leadership on workers comp has been for many decades. And I'm going to call out my colleague Rich Ives and Nick Seminara for leading the way.

So towards the end of the session, we'll begin serving lunch, for those of you who haven't had enough already to eat. And then we'll have a very short break. So finally, session two, we're going to assess today's labor market and what it means for bringing new talent, especially with a focus on technology talent. And my colleague, Mojgan Lefebvre, is going to lead that conversation.

So before we get started, as always, I'd like to share the disclaimer about today's program.

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Text: About Travelers Institute (registered trademark) Webinars. The Wednesdays with Woodward (registered trademark) educational webinar series is presented by the Travelers Institute, the public policy division of Travelers. This program is offered for informational and educational purposes only. You should consult with your financial, legal, insurance or other advisors about any practices suggested by this program. Please note that this session is being recorded and may be used as Travelers deems appropriate.

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I also want to thank my incredible friend, Joe Tama, from the New York Stock Exchange. He gave me an overly generous introduction. I couldn't even get out my opening remarks. So whatever I said about an hour ago, I don't even know what I said. I was so overwhelmed with joy. He's an incredible friend.

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Text: Forces at Work (service mark). Travelers Institute (registered trademark). Travelers.

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So, Travelers is very proud of our history. We're the only P&C company on the Dow 30. And over the past few years, Travelers Institute programming has explored mental health, mental well-being, and we know what it takes to be successful at work. And that's why the topic of this morning is so important.

So now on to our keynote address. We thought it only fitting to kick off our conversation with someone who has served as the nation's top doctor.

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A man in a dark suit jacket and bowtie smiles in a headshot photo. Text: Keynote Address. Jerome M. Adams, M.D., M.P.H., F.A.S.A., 20th U.S. Surgeon General, Executive Director, Health Equity Initiatives and the Center for Community Health Enhancement and Learning, Purdue University.

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Dr. Jerome Adams was the 20th U.S. Surgeon General working at the forefront of America's most pressing health challenges. As former Commissioner of the Indiana State Department of Health, he led the state's response to Ebola, Zika and HIV.

As the nation's Surgeon General, Dr. Adams was the operational head of 6,000-person public health service department, and he oversaw responses to three back-to-back CAT 5 hurricanes and a once-in-a-century pandemic. We owe him a debt of gratitude.

Currently, Dr. Adams serves at Purdue University, where he's Presidential Fellow and the first Executive Director of Health Equity Initiatives at the Center for Community Health Enhancement and Learning. So please join me in welcoming Dr. Jerome Adams to the stage.

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The two speakers shake hands as the guest takes the podium. Text: Jerome M. Adams, M.D., M.P.H., F.A.S.A., 20th U.S. Surgeon General, Executive Director, Health Equity Initiatives and the Center for Community Health Enhancement and Learning, Purdue University. New York Stock Exchange.

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JEROME ADAMS: Thank you. Well, good morning, everyone. It is such an honor to be here today. Thank you, Joan and Travelers for hosting us. Thank you to the New York Stock Exchange.

And for those of you who need one more reminder, it is appropriate and ironic that I am here today because it was almost five years ago that I crashed the stock market with COVID shutdowns. True story. And that's why it's even more of an honor to be here at the New York Stock Exchange. It's a place that stands as a symbol of the vibrance, the resiliency and the potential of America.

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On a slide, an image of a man pinching the bridge of his nose clouds a map of the U.S. Text: The State of Mental Health in America: Its Impact on the Economy and the Role of Civility in Moving Forward.

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We thought times were bad. They were historically bad in 2020. We thought they were never going to come back. But the market went to the highest of highs after that, and it will come back again.

And today, I want to talk to you about something that impacts us all, particularly in these turbulent times, the state of mental health in America and its profound effects on our nation's economy. Over the course of my career, I've had the privilege of engaging in conversations with a wide range of people, from health care professionals to politicians, from business leaders to families. And one thing that I've learned is that mental health challenges are pervasive, and they affect us all, whether directly or indirectly.

And these challenges are not just personal. They're societal. From 2017 to 2021, I had the privilege of serving as your United States Surgeon General during a time when mental health was emerging as one of the most pressing public health concerns of our time. I approached the issue through my lens as the nation's doctor.

But what I came to realize during my tenure, and what I've continued to witness in the years since, is that the state of our mental health is not just a medical issue. It's also an economic one. That's why it's critical that we understand the profound impact our collective mental health has on our workforce, our business and our overall economy.

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Text: The State of Mental Health in America. Addressing mental health isn't just a necessity - it's a lifeline for millions. Anxiety Disorders. Impacts 40 million U.S. adults (18.1% of the population). Most common mental health issue. Depression. 17 million U.S. adults (1 in 6 Americans) are affected. Leading cause of disability worldwide. Suicide. Over 48,000 lives lost annually. 10th leading cause of death in the U.S., 2nd for ages 10-34. Substance Misuse. Opioid crisis: nearly 100,000 lives lost in 2021. Linked to untreated mental health conditions. An illegible attribution sits at the bottom of the slide.

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So, why are we seeing the rise in mental health issues? And OK, first of all, I want to start with a couple of facts to orient you. The state of mental health in America, it's concerning, to say the least. Anxiety-- according to the National Institute of Mental Health, anxiety disorders affect 40 million U.S. adults, or 18.1% of the population. It is the most common mental health issue, and its prevalence is only increasing in our current times.

Depression-- approximately 1 in 6 Americans will experience depression at some point in their lives. In fact, it's one of the leading causes of disability worldwide, affecting 17 million adults in the United States alone. How many people are at each of these tables? About 10? So, 1 in 5, 1 in 6 people-- anxiety, depression.

Suicide-- tragically, suicide rates have been rising in recent years, with the CDC reporting it as the 10th leading cause of death in the United States. More than 48,000 lives were lost last year. And what's even more troubling, particularly to me as a parent of a 20, a 19 and a 15-year-old, is the sharp increase in suicides we're seeing amongst young people. Suicide is now the second leading cause of death for individuals between the ages of 10 and 34.

And then finally, an issue that's deeply personal to me-- many of you have heard me share my family's story-- substance misuse. Despite some recent declines, the opioid epidemic continues to rage across America, with nearly 100,000 Americans dying yearly from drug overdoses. Many of these deaths are tied to substance use disorders that stem from untreated mental health conditions, like depression, anxiety and PTSD.

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Text: Understanding Mental Health Disparities and Causes. Mental Health Disparities. LGBTQ+ youth face significantly higher suicide rates and mental health challenges. Black and Latino communities experience poorer mental health outcomes. Disparities in healthcare access affect minority communities' mental health. 1 in 3 adolescents report symptoms of depression and anxiety. Causes of Rising Mental Health Issues. Modern societal pressures and economic stress. Social media. COVID-19 pandemic exacerbated isolation and uncertainty. Political polarization and sensationalized media. An illegible attribution sits at the bottom of the slide.

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And we know that mental health disparities disproportionately affect certain communities. For example, LGBTQ+ youth face a significantly higher risk of suicide and mental health struggles, with suicide rates estimated to be four times higher than their heterosexual peers. In minority communities, especially Black and Latino populations, we see poor mental health outcomes partially due to systemic racism, cultural stigma and disparities in health care access.

And as we know, our young people are increasingly struggling with mental health challenges, with 1 in 3 adolescents reporting symptoms of depression and anxiety. I told you, I have three kids. That means one of my kids, statistically speaking, is going to be suffering from anxiety and depression.

So, why are we seeing this rise in mental health issues? Well, several factors contribute. There's the pressure of modern society, economic stress-- we're at the New York Stock Exchange-- social media and the COVID-19 pandemic. And there's also an overall breakdown in community connections.

But let's not overlook the role of politics in the media. In today's 24-hour news cycle, we're constantly bombarded with sensationalized headlines, divisive rhetoric, and a steady stream of doomscrolling that keeps our stress levels sky high. And the polarization in Washington, D.C., isn't helping, either. If you've turned on the news lately, you've probably wondered whether Congress itself should be going through group therapy.

Yet, the dysfunction, the gridlock and the political infighting, they don't just shape our policy. They shape our collective anxiety. When every issue is framed as an existential crisis, a very threat to our lives and to our livelihoods, it's no wonder so many people feel overwhelmed. Our fast-paced, high-stress world, combined with a lack of proper mental health support and support for each other, has led to what is a national crisis.

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On the next slide, dollar bills fall around a human icon with a question mark above it. Text: The Economic Impact of Mental Health Challenges. Mental health challenges aren't just a personal struggle-they're a trillion-dollar global economic crisis that demands urgent action. Over $200 billion in lost U.S. earnings annually. U.S. spends $210 billion annually on healthcare. Mental illness impacts employee: Productivity, Decision-making, Turnover. On the slide, trillion-dollar global economic crisis is written in blue link text. An illegible attribution sits at the bottom of the slide.

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Now let's consider the cost of this national crisis. It's not just in terms of human suffering, but in terms of its impact on the economy. According to the World Health Organization, depression and anxiety alone cost the global economy $1 trillion annually in lost productivity. Someone tell Elon that he could save a whole lot more money if we focused on mental health issues right now.

In the United States, the economic impact of mental health disorders is staggering. Mental illness contributes to over $200 billion in lost earnings every year due to workplace absenteeism, reduced productivity and disability claims. But the true cost, it extends beyond direct impacts on the workforce. It's also about health care spending.

Treating mental health conditions, including substance use disorders, comes with a hefty price tag. Direct U.S. health care costs for mental health conditions, including treatment for mental illnesses, substance use disorders and related comorbidities, are estimated to be about $210 billion annually, and much of these costs are borne by employers.

Moreover, when individuals suffer from untreated mental health conditions, their ability to contribute to the workforce, to participate in the workforce, diminishes. People leave their jobs, or they experience long-term unemployment. And even when they stay employed, the toll of mental illness can mean reduced productivity, poor decision-making and higher rates of turnover.

So, what can we do to reverse this trend because it is not all doom and gloom?

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Text: What Employers Can Do to Improve Employee Mental Health. Workplace Environment. Foster a supportive environment. Minimize stressors with reasonable workloads and work-life balance. Resilience and Support. Build resilience through resources and Employee Assistance Programs (E.A.P's). Offer flexible work, financial wellness, and community support. Proactive Mental Health Approach. Prioritize mental wellness to boost productivity and engagement. Integrate mental health support and advocate for healthcare access. Address societal factors and emphasize civility. By embracing civility, employers can transform workplace culture, reduce stigma, and pave the way for improved mental health and well-being for all. On the slide, emphasize civility is written in link text.

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Employers play a crucial role in fostering a workplace environment that supports mental health and overall well-being. To minimize workplace stressors, organizations can promote reasonable workloads. They can encourage work-life balance. They can create a culture where employees feel safe discussing mental health without fear of stigma.

Beyond just reducing stress, companies can proactively build resilience by offering access to mental health resources, implementing employee assistance programs, and providing training on stress management and emotional well-being. Additionally, recognizing that external stressors, such as financial struggles, family responsibilities and societal pressures also impact mental health, employers can offer flexible work arrangements, financial wellness programs and community support initiatives.

By prioritizing mental wellness, businesses not only enhance productivity and engagement, but also contribute to a healthier, more resilient workforce. This is why we must, we must address mental health proactively, by integrating mental health support into the workplace, by advocating for policies that expand access to care and by fostering an environment of parity where our mental health is prioritized and paid for to the same degree as our physical health needs.

But we also need to address the societal factors that contribute to mental health struggles. And that brings me to my final point and one that's been on my heart a lot lately, the power of civility. You might be wondering what the heck, Dr. Adams, does civility have to do with mental health? Well, my answer to you is a great deal.

It goes without saying our nation is deeply, deeply divided right now. Political polarization, our social media echo chambers and rising tensions have created a climate where anger and vitriol often replace understanding and empathy. And while it's easy to see how this affects our political discourse, it's important to recognize the toll that it's actually taking on our collective mental health, each and every one of us.

Civility-- the simple act of showing respect for one another, even, or dare I say, especially when we disagree, is critical for our emotional well-being. When we live in a society marked by division and discord, it increases our stress, our anxiety and our feelings of isolation from one another. People begin to feel unheard, unseen and disconnected from their communities. This not only worsens mental health outcomes, but it makes it more difficult to address complex issues like mental illness and substance misuse.

But there's good news here. Civility can be a powerful tool for healing. When we engage in civil discourse, whether with a colleague, a neighbor or a stranger out on the streets of New York, we create space for mutual respect and understanding. Civility allows us to break down barriers, to build trust and to move toward solutions that address our shared challenges.

In my own career, I've seen firsthand how civility can impact health. I'm going to share with you one quick example. In 2015, before I was Surgeon General, I was the Indiana State Health Commissioner, and we faced an unprecedented mental health and public health challenge. A staggering number of people in rural Scott County, Indiana, had become infected with HIV caused by injection drug use.

The public health solution was clear. We needed a needle exchange program. But that solution was highly, highly controversial, especially in such a deeply conservative state and a deeply conservative community.

We could have forced a governmental solution. I could have used my authority as health commissioner to simply demand that we open up a syringe service program. But instead, we chose to approach the community with respect and with understanding. We listened to their concerns and engaged in a civil discourse with local leaders, even those who opposed the program.

We found common ground. We built trust. And ultimately, implemented a policy that saved lives, not just in Scott County, but through the expansion of harm reduction programs across rural and conservative America. It remains one of the things I'm most proud of in my career.

So I speak from experience when I tell you that this same approach, an approach rooted in civility, can help us improve mental health in this country. By fostering civil conversations about mental health, we reduce stigma. We encourage people to seek help. And we create policies that truly address the needs of those suffering.

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Text: Steps to Cultivate Civility. To foster a society where respect and understanding are the norms, consider these practical steps to cultivate civility in everyday interactions. The terms respect, understanding and cultivate civility are written in link text. Text: 1. Listen Actively. Pay attention without interrupting to build mutual understanding. In a photo below, two women have a conversation. Text: 2. Choose Words Wisely. Use respectful language to foster dialogue and avoid division. In another photo, two people in hi-vis vests chat. Text: 3. Practice Empathy. Understand others' perspectives to connect and reduce judgment. In a photo below, one woman comforts another, placing a hand on her shoulder. Text: 4. Encourage Constructive Debate. Focus on ideas, not individuals, for respectful discussions. In another photo, a group of four people sit around a circular table.

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So how do we cultivate civility in our everyday lives? How can you build a society where respect, empathy and understanding are the norms and not just the exceptions? Well, I'm going to close by sharing four practical steps that I believe can make a meaningful difference in how we engage with each other and how we tackle complex issues around mental health.

Step No. 1-- listen actively. In a world where everyone has an opinion, it's easy to speak without taking the time to truly hear others. But to foster civility, we must make an effort to listen actively. This means really paying attention when someone speaks without interrupting or forming our rebuttal.

And my wife is watching on the livestream right now. Lacey, I'm trying to do better at this. Listening shows respect, and it helps build our mutual understanding.

No. 2-- choose your words wisely. Our words can build bridges, or they can tear them down. In times of disagreement or tension, be mindful of the words you use and how you communicate. Language that is respectful, even when challenging an idea, encourages dialogue and doesn't alienate others. So choose words that foster understanding and not division.

No. 3-- practice empathy. One of the most powerful tools we have in fostering civility is empathy. We should try to see things from other's perspectives, especially when those perspectives differ from our own. Empathy allows us to connect on a human level, reducing the judgment and stereotyping that often fuel discord and disconnect.

One of my favorite quotes is from Mark Twain. He says travel-- travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness because it opens your eyes to how other people see and exist in this world.

No. 4-- encourage constructive debate. Debate is a cornerstone of our democracy, but it must be done respectfully. Instead of attacking individuals, focus on ideas. Instead of criticizing people, critique policies. Encourage open discussions that challenge your own views in a constructive way. Healthy debates lead to deeper understanding and better outcomes for everyone involved.

So, what's my final Surgeon General's warning on mental health? Well, we must invest in mental wellness, and we need to make mental health care accessible to everyone, regardless of their socioeconomic status, geographic location or demographics. Employers, you all can play a huge role by prioritizing mental health in the workplace and offering the full spectrum of mental health support for your employees.

And we need to commit to civility. Let's work to build, to rebuild, a culture of respect and of understanding. Remember, civility isn't just about being nice, but about building healthy and prosperous workplaces and communities. It doesn't just lower stress and anxiety. It fosters collaboration, innovation and problem-solving, which are critical to get that stock market going in the right direction again.

Finally, let's all remember that mental health, it's not just the job of the Surgeon General. It's a shared responsibility. We must act together to create an environment where everyone, regardless of their background or identity, has an opportunity to thrive.

You always harvest what you plant. Maya Angelou said that. So, I challenge you to choose the seeds that we sow in this world and in our workplaces carefully. And I thank you for giving me the privilege of your attention today and of serving as your United States Surgeon General in 2017 to 2021. Thank you very much.

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Text: Travelers Institute (registered trademark). Travelers. To learn more visit Travelers Institute dot-org. Images of N.Y.S.E. Group, Inc., including the images of the New York Stock Exchange Trading Floor and the Façade of the New York Stock Exchange, the design of each of which is a federally registered service mark of N.Y.S.E. Group, Inc., are used with permission of N.Y.S.E. Group. Inc. and its affiliated companies. Neither N.Y.S.E. Group. Inc. nor its affiliated companies sponsor, approve of or endorse the contents of this publication. Neither N.Y.S.E. Group. Inc. nor its affiliated companies recommend or make any representation as to possible benefits from any securities or investments. Investors should undertake their own due diligence regarding their securities and investment practices.

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Text: Travelers Institute (registered trademark). Travelers. Forces at Work (service mark). Symposium at the New York Stock Exchange, April 7, 2025.

Up next: Session 2: The Intersection of Tech and Talent - A Leadership View of Today's Labor Market.

Joan Woodward stands at a podium on a stage. Two people sit in chairs to her right. Audience members sit at tables. Text: Joan Woodward, President, Travelers Institute. Executive Vice President, Public Policy, Travelers.

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JOAN WOODWARD: Welcome back and thank you again for those of you in person and livestreaming with us. We've just spent the morning talking about mental well-being and work, and how leaders like us can create the culture that allows people to thrive.

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Text: About Travelers Institute (registered trademark) Webinars - The Wednesdays with Woodward (registered trademark) educational webinar series is presented by the Travelers Institute, the public policy division of Travelers. This program is offered for informational and educational purposes only. You should consult with your financial, legal, insurance or other advisors about any practices suggested by this program. Please note that this session is being recorded and may be used as Travelers deems appropriate. Travelers Institute (registered trademark). Travelers.

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Our final session today takes that fundamental idea and expands outward, looking at the journey of how we bring people into our organizations in the first place. The labor market and employee experience has certainly evolved in the last couple of years, from the pandemic to remote work, the great resignation, or our CEO likes to call it the great reshuffle, to changing economic conditions. The core questions for our conversations are, what pressing issues are leaders confronting in the labor market? What issues may become paramount in the future, and how's technology affecting all of this?

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Text: The Intersection of Tech and Talent: A Leadership View of Today's Labor Market. Pictures, names, and titles of three people. Text: Mojgan Lefebvre - Executive Vice President and Chief Technology & Operations Officer, Travelers. Dan Helfrich, Principal and former Chair and Chief Executive Officer, Deloitte Consulting LLP. Joan Woodward, Executive Vice President, Public Policy; President, Travelers Institute, Travelers.

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So, I can think of no better one position to weigh in on these questions than the two leaders on the stage. First, Dan Helfrich, who is a principal at Deloitte Consulting, where he served as Chairman and CEO from 2019 until January of this year. Dan brings more than 20 years of experience fueling effective and efficient organizations. He's a pioneer in purpose-driven leadership and an advocate for team culture and continuous innovation. Dan, thank you for being here with us today.

Also joining me is my colleague and friend Mojgan Lefebvre, who is Executive Vice President and our Chief Technology and Operations Officer here at Travelers. She leads technology organizations with data, analytics, cybersecurity and business operations. She spent her career at the intersection of business and technology, having been named to the CIO Hall of Fame and to the Forbes CIO Next list, which recognizes the world's 50 most innovative enterprise technology leaders. It is quite an honor to have that title, Mojgan.

So she's also a recognized leader in talent development. I think you have 12,000 people that report to you, Mojgan?

MOJGAN LEFEBVRE: Well, employees plus contractors. So, 8,000 employees.

JOAN WOODWARD: OK, I have five, so-- I have five very talented people. So just last year, Travelers opened a new technology office in Atlanta. She oversaw that. She's just an amazing speaker on AI, data science and other things. So, thank you both for being here.

Dan, you're going to get the first question. Then I'm going to have a seat. You just spent the last six years as CEO of Deloitte. How is that unique experience shaping your view of the current talent workforce and issues we face?

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Joan sits in the third chair on the stage.

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DAN HELFRICH: Thanks, Joan. And then the five, 12,000, I had at 125,000. And so it shaped it in very profound ways.

I must start by saying it's special for me to be here today. As Mojgan knows, in many ways, I was raised a Travelers kid. And there may be one or two people either in the room or on the livestream who were here 30 years ago. My father was actually the CHRO of Travelers, Tom Helfrich.

JOAN WOODWARD: Really?

DAN HELFRICH: And so it's been fun to spend time with Mojgan and team. And a lot of my thinking about culture comes from spending time at Travelers, actually, as a teenager. And I remember moments like walking through the Tower and developing a friendship with Archie, the security guard. And you laugh, but my whole framework on leadership, to address your question, is that the biggest issue right now facing an organization of our scale, an organization of your scale, is that scale has the risk of eating humanity. And scale and humanity fight each other in cultures.

And so I think it's incumbent upon all of us who get entrusted with the privilege of leading an organizations of our scale and stature to make sure that humanity stays alive in the decisions we make, and the way we communicate, and the way we try to engage. Because if you don't manage it, scale, which the markets love, and growth is a great thing. But if it saps us of humanity, then you become very ordinary as an organization. And so I've learned that in a lot of different ways over that six-year tenure.

JOAN WOODWARD: OK, we're going to dig into that. That's a lot of employees to have to handle and manage. Mojgan, tell us about your technology journey at Travelers. So you joined us maybe five, six years ago, something like that?

MOJGAN LEFEBVRE: Over six-- in 2018. Six plus.

JOAN WOODWARD: And so technology is rapidly-- I mean, I just don't know how organizations like us keep up with it and employ new tools like AI on top of legacy systems that we've had for decades. So give us a little insight into what you learned in the last six years.

MOJGAN LEFEBVRE: Sure, sure. And, well, first of all, a privilege to be here. It was such a high to be up there ringing the bell, and great to be with you, Dan. I'm a big fan.

So, I joined Travelers in 2018. And while as we set our technology strategy very tightly coupled with our business objectives, and of course, we were very focused on modernizing our technology foundation, focusing on the customer and employee experience. But I knew-- and I'm such a big believer that at the end of the day, it all comes down to the people.

And so, the first strategic priority we set in place was investing in our people. And that's what we coined it. And that's really been what we've been very focused on. Our goal was to make sure that we got to a point where every single person was doing the right work with all the skills that they needed and the tools that they needed.

And so creating a culture where continuous learning and having that open growth mindset was going to be the case was really important to us. And so, again, really, really focused on that. And so in order to make it happen, I hired a leader to create our dedicated tech and analytics learning organization, which now has been in place for a few years. And they've really built some of the best-in-class, I would say, learning pathways on a modern platform and aligned that learning both to skills and to roles.

Because whatever gets measured actually gets done, we also established objectives and key results or OKRs, which were very focused on dedicated time for each of our tech employees to have the time to do the upskilling and reskilling, making sure that the leaders were giving them the space and the time to do that. It was also very clear to us that we needed to shift from the traditional, reactive IT mindset and approach to much more of an engineering, design-oriented, much more automation, really proactive. And so that became core, really focusing on engineering excellence and creating an engineering culture. And then ultimately, making sure that we had the right pipeline of talent.

And so in 2018, when I joined, I think we were hiring 15 or 20 college grads. And so we've grown that to be around a couple of hundred on an annual basis, and we've focused it on the top 100 computer science schools. Because we knew that, again, to get to engineering, it wasn't going to happen overnight. And so, again, really making sure that we had all of these elements in place. And so the interplay between technology and talent is really at the core of everything that we do.

JOAN WOODWARD: I mean, you're competing with people who are working at Apple, and Google, and all these high-tech companies that if you're a technology student, you want to go to-- I'm not going to say it, but a sexier company than an insurance company? I don't know, maybe. Like, how do you think about attracting those young people to Hartford, Connecticut, in the P&C business? Because it must be a hard sell.

MOJGAN LEFEBVRE: Sure. And we are. Again, regardless of how advanced technology is, I'm still a big believer that some of the core engineering roles you need to have-- because again, to be able to leverage those technologies the right way, you need to have that critical thinking. And so we are competing, in fact, with the Amazons, and Googles, and others of the world for that top, top talent.

And so, it's about, first of all, making sure we're positioning ourselves as a technology company, as well. We spend anywhere between $1.5 billion plus annually, and Alan talks about this all the time, on technology, and data, and analytics. And so ensuring that people know that, that's more than many, many startups-- tech startups even make.

And then the work that we do is really exciting. I mean, we are a data company at the core of it. Like we're making decisions around risk, and that's all with information. We're not a manufacturer.

And so the ability to invest that much is exciting and do really great work. And then it's about going to where the talent is. And so that's why last year, April of last year-- so I'm a Georgia Tech alum. That's where I did my computer science undergrad. And so we opened our tech hub in Atlanta, which I think is a very tech-rich city. I mean, there's a lot of companies that have moved from Silicon Valley to there and are hiring, very close to the Georgia Tech grounds. We have a phenomenal office that we actually moved up to the 15th floor of the Coda building on the grounds of Georgia Tech, really having access to all of that talent who are on the different floors. You've got these data scientists that are working.

And so we're recruiting aggressively. We have over 100 people there. We have a plan to grow to over 200. We actually increased our space for that.

And so, again, it's about positioning yourself the right way, changing the way you go to market, and then being where the talent is and making sure that we're giving our people the tools. And then that they're working on exciting new things because they don't want to come in and do COBOL programming.

DAN HELFRICH: Well, and what our data would say, it's interesting, is for tech talent, brand isn't actually the sexy differentiator. It's learning pathways, and it's agency to work on really interesting things. Those are the two things.

Learning pathways-- people, particularly in the early stages of their career, they want to see an organization that is investing in tangible learning. Because people appropriately view that as the currency that's going to help them as their career moves forward. So the extent you're investing in saying, here's the investment we're making in tangible certifications and tangible growth plans, you can compete with Apple and Alphabet for that talent.

And then agency is about saying, not only do we have really interesting data things we're working on, but you as a 23-year-old engineer, you're actually going to be able to roll up your sleeves and be in it, applying new skills in AI or otherwise. If you both sell that and then you deliver it, then your both recruiting and retention of that talent will be leading in the industry.

JOAN WOODWARD: Completely agree 100%. And she's doing it, by the way. She is an exceptional--

DAN HELFRICH: I know. She's stealing some of our people.

JOAN WOODWARD: She is? Oh, good. [LAUGHS] Good to hear.

All right, let's talk about the current labor market. So demographics-- the birth rate is down. Our kids are getting married later. They're having less kids.

Immigration policy in the U.S. over the last couple of decades, many decades, is kind of upside down. We're not attracting the people we need. And we're retiring.

Baby boom generation, 10,000 of us-- I'm the last year of that-- 10,000 of us want to retire every day. Look at my husband.

So we actually-- no one wants to work until we're 85 years old. We are going to retire. We do not have enough kids to replace ourselves, and immigration policies. So the labor market shortages and the wage gains we've seen, again, got exacerbated during COVID. So talk about the current environment and how business leaders need to think about the labor force.

DAN HELFRICH: Well, we'll stay away from the current, current environment and policy associated. By the way, I think there are some people who want to work till they're 85.

JOAN WOODWARD: They do?

DAN HELFRICH: I think we have good evidence of that. Look, the premium right now is on skilling. And we have a macro responsibility as a country and as leading employers within the country to invest in the education system and the job skilling system to get new skills and to evolve people's skills.

And so I'm pretty heartened, actually, by the pace at which, across public private sectors, academia, curricula, and training programs, and policy initiatives are leaning into skilling. And look, I'm a tech optimist relative to the intersection between labor market and technology innovation. And so in that reskilling, we will see, are seeing, and we'll continue to see, I think, productivity enhancements as a result of the technology innovation that's happening. And so I think with that cocktail of factors, we can navigate the shortage that you describe at a demographic level.

JOAN WOODWARD: So, thank you. So Mojgan, how has tech changed just in your career? I mean you've been a techie forever, right? You went to school for that. You trained in that, got your MBA from Harvard. So you've been in the business environment.

So what trends in tech do we expect going forward? Or what are you seeing now, and what is going forward?

MOJGAN LEFEBVRE: Look, I think there's some things that are constant, and then some things that are new, as Dan is saying. So let me think about that from two angles. One is when I think of technology talent, one thing that I've always believed in, and I think has always been true, is that the best technologists are the ones who understand what business problem they're solving, who really understand their end user, their customer, whether it's the employee population, or the customer, or agent broker population in our case.

And so once you understand that, then you can truly leverage the right technology to solve that problem. That's always been the case. I think that's even more true now with tools like AI, generative AI, and more.

The other trend, though, that we've been seeing is what we call full stack, or I tend to talk about it from it's a T-shaped skill set, meaning you've got expertise in one or two areas deep, but then your ability to navigate across the software development life cycle or whatever value stream or value chain you're thinking, the ability to have breadth across all of that is pretty critical, as well, so that you can change roles and that you're not siloed. So having that T-shaped skill, having the full stack of skills that you need, I think is becoming more and more important, and that can navigate from business to technology and vice versa.

Then the second thing I'd say is, with the advent of generative AI and technologies that are really now allowing people who've never coded in their lives now do vibe coding. Like vibe coding, the term was coined several weeks ago, and now there are thousands and thousands.

JOAN WOODWARD: Say it slower. What did you just say?

MOJGAN LEFEBVRE: Vibe, vibe, V-I-B-E coding. So it's like--

JOAN WOODWARD: Vibe coding.

MOJGAN LEFEBVRE: You never coded. And now there's this vibe coding happening, or vibe marketing. Or people who weren't doing something, and now with the help of a tool, have the ability to do that. And so business folks, or non-technologists are becoming technologists in a way. So again, the domains are blending, but I do believe that enterprises still have the responsibility to make sure that they are enabling all of their employees to really become technologists, to understand technology.

So a couple of years ago, with the sponsorship of Alan, we established what we call our Tech Foundations. It's a 12-module, bite-sized set of trainings-- online again-- you can do at your own time. And we encourage every single one of our 30,000 employees to take those.

And to date, we have around 7,000 plus or so who've actually taken and finished those modules that are focused on cybersecurity, data, AI and more. And so these are some of the trends that I'm seeing.

DAN HELFRICH: I love it. And by the way, Joan, I'm excited for your vibe coding era. I think it's going to be-- I think it's going to be exciting.

JOAN WOODWARD: If anybody knows me, I mean, it is bad. Right? My family's over here. They're like, mom, you can't do anything.

DAN HELFRICH: No, you can. Anybody can vibe code. But Mojgan, I think, gave some really important insight to the employee base writ large.

We have a lot of executives in this room and watching. And so I want to share what I've been pushing a bunch of my clients towards, and we've pushed ourselves internally. If you think of the world of I'm going to give you three categories of people-- tech aware, tech savvy and tech fluent.

If you sit around a management table, as all of you do, many of you sit around in many, I'd ask you to assess the percentage of your management table in each of those three buckets-- tech aware, tech savvy, tech fluent. And what I'm seeing, and we're starting to do some research on this, is management teams that are-- have a ratio of more than half of their people are only tech aware are really going to struggle. Management teams who have no one that's tech fluent at the table are really going to struggle.

Because at the end of the day, so many of the decisions you're confronting are technology-influenced decisions. And if you don't have people around the table debating with, actually, the context of technology evolving at the pace that it's evolving right now, then you're putting yourself at a big deficit relative to competitors. And so if you think about it that way, then premium on upskilling management team members, premium on upskilling board members, and assessing that is a really interesting thing for a management team to do right now.

MOJGAN LEFEBVRE: And I love that you call it tech fluent because that was actually what we wanted. We wanted to make sure that every single one of our employees was tech fluent. And then you're right. You've got to model the way as leaders and be the ones who are doing it first and foremost.

JOAN WOODWARD: I love that. Let's talk about how to build a team. And so as I'm calling you out, Mojgan, because I'm just admiring what you did at Travelers to build that team almost from scratch. I mean, we clearly had technologists before and very brilliant people, but you brought them in. I'm going to go to Dan first so you can think.

But Dan, how do you build highly functional, engaged team. That's worker well-being. We just talked about mental health in the workplace. What has been your experience? What's the most successful thing someone could do tomorrow in their business to build that team who wants to work together, highly energized, and loves their job?

DAN HELFRICH: Yeah, I'll give you two things that I have found to be extraordinarily successful. I like to talk in what I call, and we've branded, everyday equations. These are things that you tell people you want the everyday behavior of them as individuals in the organization to take on.

And the most influential everyday equation that we applied, and it builds on the panel we had before, is that your well-being as an individual is greater than Deloitte's well-being. And then live up to that. What does that actually mean?

I'm telling you as the CEO that if you find yourself in a situation where you're debating about how to spend time, where to focus, etc., and you feel like it's a choice between the health and well-being of Deloitte or the health and well-being of you as an individual, I want you to choose you. And that as a cultural norm to build a team has been extraordinarily powerful.

The second technique, and Dr. Adams referenced it in a different context is, to me, the best teams debate. And what does a good debate look like? On things relevant to the workplace, not things related to politics, it looks like people of all levels and experiences having an unmoderated discussion where there's a free exchange of ideas in a civil way.

Everyone thought I was absolutely crazy. We did a company-wide debate on what our return to office policy should be.

JOAN WOODWARD: I'll bet that was interesting.

DAN HELFRICH: Unmoderated. When I say unmoderated, I mean it's not like people submitted things, and then the executive team decided which we would publish. It was an unmoderated discussion, and we learned so much. And people learned so much from each other.

But at the end of the day, what happened more than anything is we suddenly had a team that felt like no matter where they sat in the organization, their voice actually had a chance to influence the conversation. And that's been super powerful.

JOAN WOODWARD: And where did you end up on your remote work? I didn't look this up. I should have, but where did you end up? What is your policy?

DAN HELFRICH: Well, we've-- so we did this debate four years ago. We've evolved it over time. Our policy is super flexible to match the rhythms of our clients. I mean, we're in a professional services environment.

And so given that there are no norms and standards within the industry, we've got to be malleable. But we make sure that there is rhythm of in-person interaction at our corporate university, in our offices, in a periodic enough basis. So even if you're serving a client that happens to be a remote-- a primary remote client, you're getting enough cultural engagement.

JOAN WOODWARD: Mojgan, did you want to add to that? On building teams, how did you build your team?

MOJGAN LEFEBVRE: Yeah, building teams, I mean, again, for me, you want to build the most empowered teams that really own decision-making. But certainly, you got to do it in a way that's aligned to the outcomes you want to achieve. So getting to the-- we called it autonomy with alignment. So how do you build teams that feel empowered, that feel like they've got the ability to make decisions without having to ask for permission?

And this was really a big move for us going to where people are really nice at Travelers, so they always want to make sure they're doing the right thing. And so a lot of times, maybe they felt like they needed permission from management. And so really, that move needed to happen. And so really focusing on evolving the way that we worked, and looking at our operating model, and then saying, how do we learn from the outside?

So Alan took a group of us. We went, actually, we went to Boston. We went to Amsterdam. We visited a bunch of large organizations that had transformed themselves digitally.

And what we realized was you're moving away from being these-- doing these projects where they have a beginning and an end to where you have teams set up to build products and platforms that are going to stay. So once you build the product, then you've got to continue to make it better. And that's how technology companies build software and work, and so we wanted to transform to that.

And so we came back, and we changed our operating model. Again, very hand-in-hand, technology and business together, focusing in different parts of our business. And really moved from this project-based to this product platform-based type of small cross-functional teams of engineers and business people sitting together with specific goals that they had to achieve. And so they were all driving towards the same thing.

So that was absolutely very critical to us. And then making sure that the teams knew that they had decision-making power. And except for at points in time, of course, they've got to go up and down the chain. But again, these teams of teams really became much more autonomous.

It's a journey, by the way. It's not like-- we're not saying we're fully there yet, but we have evolved quite a bit. And that's been very, very important in making sure that people own their decisions, are taking action and can drive outcomes.

DAN HELFRICH: It's interesting Mojgan said autonomy with alignment. I'm seeing some organizations talk about freedom within a framework. But I think this is the magic culturally, with this multi-generational workforce and this environment is how you actually acknowledge that what you are seeking to do is combine empowerment and standardization, which is a really nuanced needle to thread. But when she says autonomy with alignment, when I say freedom within a framework, that's what-- and the organizations and teams that navigate that mixture of empowerment with standardization and clarity and norms are going to be the winners.

And right now, we have some organizations that are probably overly fixated on the freedom or autonomy dimension, and others that are confident that if they have the framework defined and get everyone aligned, that that's the answer. I think the magic's in between.

MOJGAN LEFEBVRE: And it was really helpful, though, to really go out and visit with companies because I remember it was the CEO of Fidelity's Wealth Management who they'd done this whole agile transformation. And she said they started out with a lot of the autonomy, and it was chaos.

And so very quickly they realized, well, we've got to be aligned to-- going all in the same-- towards the same target. We may take different directions. And so that was absolutely critical.

Look, I think when it comes to-- call it whatever you want, digital transformation, transformation or anything, the technology is important, but it is absolutely not the most important thing. It's much harder to do the change management, the adoption, ensuring that people are clear on where they're going. And communication is always at the heart of all of that. So the people part, the culture part, the mindset is as important.

JOAN WOODWARD: Dan, you talk about leaders that undervalue something related to the talent workforce. Can you talk about that for a second? What is most undervalued?

DAN HELFRICH: I think what's most undervalued is contrary opinions. And again, and this gets back to my commentary about debates, but I observe so many leaders in the teams I'm close to and the clients that I serve who are really anxious about contrary opinions. They see it as a sign of weakness.

They fixate mentally on the existence of people and opinions that disagree with them and pay it too much mind. And therefore, try to bury it. So to me, the value of the respectful contrarian is undervalued right now. And the leaders who are, in my mind, confident enough to live in debate, in contrary opinion because it makes people better, that's the recipe for long-term engagement to rise.

JOAN WOODWARD: And what about letting people fail? So there's this big stigma in your head. You're a big loser if you lead a project and it's just failed miserably. How do you recover from that? How do you give people the grace to recover from that?

I mean, do you tell them to fail fast? What is the recipe for failing and then re-emerging?

DAN HELFRICH: Yeah. Well, first of all, I think there's obviously been a lot discussed and written about this. I think failure is a bit of a dramatic word. We grow up, at least in this country, in education, failure is rare and apocalyptic. Like the receipt of an F on something, it doesn't happen at the rate that we want what you're referencing or is commonly referenced as failure in the workplace to happen.

And so to me, it's about learnings that come from things that didn't go as well as we expected and actually celebrating them. So one of the things I did that turned out to be more powerful than I thought it would be is at big meetings we had, I would talk about losses we had in the marketplace.

JOAN WOODWARD: If that gets people--

DAN HELFRICH: In a business like ours, you get in the habit of celebrating winning. And I got in the habit of getting people on stage, and on Zooms, and talking about what we lost and why. And then it becomes a culture, more of a cultural norm, that maybe this isn't failure in the way we think about failure as a society. Maybe it's actually about learning, and actually seeing really impressive people with great careers talking about losses in pretty visceral terms can be powerful.

JOAN WOODWARD: I mean, that definitely gets your attention, but it's risky for a leader like yourself to talk about the failures out loud and share it with other people.

DAN HELFRICH: I mean, that sort of gets back to my philosophy, though, is if-- I don't see it as risky, and I don't want leaders to see it as risky. Because we are surrounded-- if we're leading large organizations, we have, quote, "wins and losses" happening by the hour. And so if you create a stigma around loss that elevates it in cultural importance, then I think you're setting a tone that doesn't allow people to learn.

MOJGAN LEFEBVRE: Or innovate. I mean, how do you innovate without taking some risk? And with no risk, there is-- I mean, without taking risk, you really don't know what the outcome is. And so if you want to get to perfection, I mean, you're stagnant. So you just absolutely have to create that, what we've called our test and learn.

One of our cultural beliefs is test and learn. So meaning it's OK to try things out. Yes, it may not work out, but failing smart, learning from it, making sure everybody is learning from it. By the way, the fact that you're sharing in large settings, I think that's critical. Because you want to make sure someone else doesn't make the same mistake, and so I think that's absolutely critical to organizations that want to evolve and really innovate. You have to.

JOAN WOODWARD: OK, we're going to get to audience questions. So if you have one, please raise your hand. I can go on, and on, and on here, but we have to be out of the room in exactly 15 minutes. So I want to give you an opportunity. We have some incredible leaders up here. Any questions for them? From anyone, how to lead teams?

How do you retain people? So this happens a lot, right? You get really talented people. You train them, you think they're highly engaged, and then they just went to a competitor for some reason. You're just throwing up your hands saying, how did this happen? What did I miss?

So how do you think about those employees that may be halfway out the door? How do you identify them? What do you say to them when you think they might be thinking of departing? I mean, technology is-- it's a tough business. People leave all the time.

MOJGAN LEFEBVRE: I mean, look, I think you've got to think of retention as a long-term strategy. And so how do you create a culture and an environment where people want to stay, and they're not leaving just because somebody else is offering them something more? I mean, Dan said it first. We can compete with other technology companies because even if they're paying them more, if we're creating an environment where they feel like they're learning, we're investing in them, that career progression is visible and accessible, that they're thriving, and they have control of where they're going, I think those are all critical things.

I think it's too late. If it comes down to where they want to leave and you've got to convince them to stay, then you've done something wrong. So I think it's really about creating that culture, making the investment up front, making sure you have an environment where they feel like they're growing and learning at all times.

DAN HELFRICH: Interestingly, and this is a little bit different given the nature of the business that I led, but I spent a lot of time actually trying to get people to celebrate people leaving.

JOAN WOODWARD: Tell me about that. Because when someone leaves me, it does not feel good.

DAN HELFRICH: So, I'll tell you a story. Ten years ago-- about 10 years ago-- two younger technologists, innovative people, really high performers, people I was close to, mentees of mine, told me they were leaving. Told the firm they were leaving. And I got-- they wanted to do something entrepreneurial, and I got a lot of really senior people in the firm saying like, Dan, how could you let this happen? Dan, what counteroffer do we need to make to get these two people not to leave?

And I said, well, hold on a second. We've given them a great platform to start their career. They have some ideas they want to see in action. And my view is we should celebrate them and hope that they're wildly successful.

Fast forward 10 years. I just hosted our whole team in Vegas at a meeting we have every two years in front of thousands and thousands of our partners, and these two guys were on stage, Russ and Achal. And they've started one of the fastest growing, most innovative health care companies in the U.S. called Cabinet Health.

And they told the story to all of Deloitte's leaders about what it meant to start their career at Deloitte, and what it meant to have their lack of retention celebrated and supported. And it's interesting. Your CFO, Dan, is a Deloitte alum. And I'm sure there was a-- there was some partner who, when Dan decided to leave-- it was more than a few years ago. But when Dan decided to leave, got a demerit for a high-performing, high-potential person leaving.

To me, I view it the opposite. We've seeded the world with great leaders who are going to go do awesome things, hopefully not at a competitor.

JOAN WOODWARD: You do have competitors. I mean, the consultants--

DAN HELFRICH: I do.

JOAN WOODWARD: So building the culture, building the team, allowing people to fail, talking about what success looks like-- I mean, to see success in your business, you have to have the metrics-- the data, and analytics, and the numbers, and the P&L, all in that. But I want to talk about technology to you, Mojgan, and building a career in technology over time when things change so rapidly.

And so I started my career without any computers. I know a lot of you in this room who might have gray hair or no hair, we didn't have computers, honestly. I know I'm old.

But the point is, someone like me who still wants to be productive, but I don't have the skills. I don't even know where to start in technology world because you want everyone to be technologists. I'm not a technologist. So how would you convert someone like me, or older cohorts, to care about being a technologist?

MOJGAN LEFEBVRE: Look, I think you're more of a technologist than you probably think, by the way. And by the way, when I came to the U.S. at the age of 19 to go to college, I had not seen a computer in my life either. I thought I was going to be a doctor my whole life.

Came to the U.S., had to support myself. I realized very quickly that was-- I couldn't. So what was the next best thing to do? Go into computer science.

But in any case, so I'd say start with the 12-module Tech Foundations that we've set. That's one. And the other thing is I don't know if any of you, if you haven't downloaded ChatGPT, by the way, onto your phone, I would highly recommend. It's an app. You just download it, and it's probably got the best voice recognition, natural language processing capability.

We all know that Siri is terrible. Apple's technology when it comes to AI is not that great at least. But if you talk to ChatGPT, you can actually capture your voice. And its translation is just incredible. Like I'm just amazed. And so you've got the ability to ask it anything.

And so Joan, whether it's recipes, or I sometimes actually ask it to match colors of clothing for me. Or if it's actually deep technical questions, or health care questions, or anything. And you can upload information to it. It's incredible.

So, you're much more of a technologist than you think. And so you can probably even ask it-- tell it what you want a program to do, and it'll tell you what the code is. And so you're a vibe coder as we speak. Download the tools and start using them.

JOAN WOODWARD: OK, we have a question that came in from someone who registered. Nicholas Zucco, Commercial Accounts Manager at Fairway Risk Solutions, wants to know, how could businesses embrace AI without stripping purpose and fulfillment from the human workforce? So again, how do you-- go ahead.

MOJGAN LEFEBVRE: No, look, I mean, that's a great question. It's like, how do you think of AI? Is AI going to replace us all? And again, I think leveraged the right way with a responsible approach to it, AI can absolutely enhance human capabilities.

I think of it as every one of us have now the best executive assistant that we could ever wish for at our fingertips. You just have to take the time, by the way, to interact with it, talk to it, ask questions, give it as much context as you would to a coworker, and have that feedback loop with it. And so if you do it, again, done the right way, making sure that you're keeping the human in the loop as you're building solutions, leveraging AI, I don't think it necessarily needs to strip the human element away.

Now, is it going to be leveraged by bad actors for bad things? Absolutely. But again, I'm sure that between both enterprises, and thinking about it responsibly, and then the regulators, I think that it can absolutely be leveraged the right way. And I think it can help science reach parts of the world where we just did not have the resources to make happen.

And we heard-- Rich talked about the fact that we don't have enough people to provide mental health education for everyone. And so you've got to leverage technology. I think of AI the same way. I think it can do things for us that we could never imagine in the world.

DAN HELFRICH: And corporations need to put their money where their mouth is. We're here on the 15th anniversary of the Travelers Institute. The Travelers Institute is a great example of a leading corporation choosing to invest in research and on topics that are on major societal issues. Well, we started six years ago, long before ChatGPT, an institute for ethical AI because we saw coming this set of topics.

So, we need the leading corporations in the space to prove that the headlines around things like ethical AI are backed up by true research and thought leadership in a way that will shape the course of the industry, and ultimately, shape the public policy that's going to come in the AI space that right now, people are very tentatively embarking on.

JOAN WOODWARD: Regulatory bodies, I mean, you heard I spent more than a decade on Capitol Hill. They're very slow to regulate technology. And that's, one, because I think a lot of them, again, are older and don't understand it. They don't even know where to start, I'm going to say, half the time.

So how do you think about regulatory regimes around privacy or other-- and is anything Congress going to do this year going to even be relevant in two years? So things are moving so quickly. I don't know how you think about that.

MOJGAN LEFEBVRE: Look, we're working very closely. Our teams are working very closely with the regulators, and actually the responsible AI framework that Travelers was the first insurance company to put that in place. And it's published on our website, and we're working. A lot of the standards that we put in place has actually become what the insurance regulators have actually considered across the board.

So I think it's a lot of collaboration. But again, at the end of the day, I think enterprises, as Dan is saying, it's incumbent upon themselves to make sure that they are thinking about it and doing it, leveraging technology the right way. And by the way, leveraging technology is not just AI. It's other technologies, as well, that you've got to think about.

DAN HELFRICH: Well, and Joan, I live in D.C. and spend a lot of time on the Hill and with folks there. I'm trying to encourage a different twist on the advice I gave management teams around tech aware, tech savvy, etc. I'm asking congressional offices and committees, tell me about the hiring screening you're doing right now for everybody, including your interns, and your entry level hires.

You know from your time on the Hill, you would not have had a technology sophistication screen to who you're interviewing and who you're forming your offices with. Well, if you change that, and then you get constituent mail that's related to technology things, then maybe you're having a more sophisticated conversation. And maybe as the technology evolves at the rate it is, you're more likely as a legislator to have the agility to pivot.

So I think that's a place, and to your point, public service, and related, we need more technology fluent people in the conversations not just at the elected representative level.

JOAN WOODWARD: So, our time has flown by. Anybody have one last quick question we have to get out of the way? No burning-- nothing? This is all crystal clear? You're going to implement all these things tomorrow in your business.

Listen, a couple of things before I address my current panel. I want to thank you all for your engagement not just today, but over the last 15. And we really do mean that.

Please give me feedback on this today, or anything we do at the Institute. We love feedback. Tell our CEO what you like, what you didn't like.

I love constructive feedback. Sometimes I don't listen to it, but I do like getting it to keep us grounded. So with that, I want to thank my terrific panel and you all for coming and for staying. Thank you.

MOJGAN LEFEBVRE: Thank you.

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Text: Travelers Institute (registered trademark). Travelers. To learn more visit travelers institute.org. Used with permission of N.Y.S.E. Group Inc., Copyright 2025.