Mastering Market Shifts: What Independent Insurance Professionals Need to Know

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Text: Wednesdays with Woodward (registered trademark) Webinar Series. Logo: Travelers Institute (registered trademark), Travelers, 15 Years. 

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JOAN WOODWARD: Hi there, everyone. Good afternoon and thank you for joining us. I'm Joan Woodward, and I'm honored to lead the Travelers Institute, which is our public policy and educational arm of Travelers. So welcome to today's session. This session is going to be fantastic. We're really glad you're here. 

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Text: About Travelers Institute (registered trademark) Webinars. The Wednesdays with Woodward (registered trademark) educational webinar series is presented by the Travelers Institute, the public policy division of Travelers. This program is offered for informational and educational purposes only. You should consult with your financial, legal, insurance or other advisors about any practices suggested by this program. Please note that this session is being recorded and may be used as Travelers deems appropriate. 

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And before we get started, I'd like to share our disclaimer about today's program. 

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Text: Wednesdays with Woodward (registered trademark) Webinar Series. Mastering Market Shifts: What Independent Insurance Professionals Need to Know. Logos: Big "I" (registered trademark) Independent Insurance Agents & Brokers of America. MetroHartford Alliance, UConn School of Business MS in Financial Technology, I.A.C. Insurance Association of Connecticut, TrustedChoice.com, P.I.A. Professional Insurance Agents, Travelers Institute (registered trademark), Travelers, 15 Years. 

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I'd also like to thank our webinar partners today, and we have a lot of them. First, the Big "I," then the Insurance Association of Connecticut, trustedchoice.com, MetroHartford Alliance, the National Association of Professional Insurance Agents, the Master's in FinTech Program at UConn.

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Text: Speakers. Photos of each speaker. Text: Joan Woodward, Executive Vice President, Public Policy; President, Travelers Institute, Travelers. Charles Symington, President and CEO, Big "I." Sean Ramalho, Executive Vice President, Enterprise Distribution, Travelers. 

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So now on to our program. Today, I am thrilled to have two industry leaders join me today. First up is the CEO and President of the Independent Insurance Agents and Brokers of America. Charles Symington is joining us. The IIABA, or the Big "I," as it's known, is an advocate for independent insurance agents and brokers. 

The national and state Big "I"s provide resources, advocacy and support to members to build and grow their businesses. They help independent insurance agents navigate through changes and challenges in today's insurance marketplace. And there are a lot of them, as everyone knows.

Our hearts and our prayers are out to everyone in Florida facing Hurricane Milton today and tomorrow. And we pray that that storm will keep us safe. And if you are affected, please reach out to your insurance agent and broker and carrier. We are here for you.

So, Charles has been with this organization for 20 years and just wrapped up his first year as President and CEO leading the Big "I." So, previously he served as SVP for External and Industry and Government Affairs. Under his leadership, the Big "I" has had numerous legislative wins, including securing substantial small business tax relief and defending a modernized state regulatory system for insurance.

Charles spent a lot of his first year as president on the road talking to all of you Big "I" members and others. He's going to give us an update on what he's been hearing, as well as a peek into this year's Agency Universe Report. Then we're going to be joined by my partner and friend, Travelers Executive Vice President for Enterprise Distribution, Sean Ramalho.

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Text: Charles Symington, Jr., Big "I" President and CEO. Logos: Big "I" (registered trademark), Trusted Choice Independent Insurance Agents. Text: The Big "I" Has Your Back. 

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Now, Charles, the virtual floor is yours. And I know you have some terrific insights into your new study to share with us today. So thank you so much for being here. 

CHARLES SYMINGTON: Thank you, Joan. It's my pleasure. Really appreciate the invitation. And I would also like to reiterate your point on the storms. Our hearts, our prayers go out to those who have been impacted in North Carolina, Tennessee from Helene, and also those who will be impacted on the west coast of Florida from Milton.

But of course, this is what our industry does best. We're there for people in their time of need, but we are thinking about anyone in the path of Milton. So let's dive right in. Let's go through the PowerPoint. I'll try to make this quick because I'm really looking forward to having a discussion with you all today.

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Text: What is the Big "I"? Oldest and largest insurance trade group in the U.S., Federation of 51 state associations representing nearly 25,000 independent insurance agency locations in communities across the country. Big "I" National employs 83 staffers and there are hundreds more working for our state associations across the country. 

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And many of you all are already familiar with the Big "I", what we do, what we are. But yeah, we're a national trade association. We're the oldest and largest insurance trade group in the United States. Our structure maybe is not as well known. We're a confederation of 51 state associations representing nearly 25,000 independent agency retail locations in communities all across the country. 

And while those independent agencies are members of ours, also those state associations are members of ours. And so, we like to work very closely with our states. At the Big "I" national, we employ approximately 80 employees. But when you add up the state staff, that state association staff across the country, we have hundreds upon hundreds of staff working on behalf of the IA system.

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Text: Sampling of Big "I" Programs: Advocacy, Agents Council for Technology, Research and Best Practices, Trusted Choice: digital marketing resources; Relief Fund, D&I, Young Agents, E&O, Market Access, InsurBanc, Legal Resources. 

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Just want to go through a quick sampling of Big "I" programs. As many of you know, our calling card, so to speak, is our advocacy. It's our government affairs at both the federal and the state level, but our advocacy goes way beyond just on a government affairs basis. It's our advocacy in the press. It's our advocacy with our carrier partners, such as Travelers. 

But I do want to give a shout-out just to the top-notch Government-- Government Affairs team at Travelers led by Glenn Westrick. Coordinate very closely with your team to get things done for the marketplace. We also have our Agents Council for Technology. Of course, technology is a critical issue for our members and for Travelers. We're always focused on that.

We're also a leader in research. We have a number of studies. You've already mentioned the Agency Universe Study, which I'm going to go through some of those key findings here today. But we have our Best Practices program, which allows a lot of our members to benchmark against the highest performing agencies in the country.

We've got Trusted Choice. Trusted Choice is our consumer brand, but it does so much more than that. It offers our members digital marketing resources and marketing reimbursements. And here's an important facet of Trusted Choice that's not well known. Trusted Choice also administers our Trusted Choice Relief Fund.

And that relief fund is there financially for our members when they're suffering in their times of need, when they're dealing with catastrophic risks and natural disasters. So it's already gone into action in North Carolina and Tennessee and Georgia and Florida after Helene. And it's ready to go into action after Milton. And so, another really important component of Trusted Choice.

We have a very robust diversity and inclusion program. And I do have to thank Travelers as well for supporting our Diversity Council. I really enjoy working with Shay Conyers and Ricky Jones, who are very active on the Diversity Council. So, thank you there.

And, of course, we've got our Young Agents program. We have to get the best and the brightest entering our industry. And then that's one of the ways we do that. When I go through these programs, you just assume that Travelers is supporting just about every one of them. So, thank you so much for the partnership.

I mentioned Trusted Choice as well. And Travelers is one of our staunchest and longest-serving carrier partners on Trusted Choice. And then we also offer a number of products and services for our members. We have the best product in the business for our members. And then we offer our members services that then they can provide to their customers.

So, we have a market access program. So I'm going to go into that in a little bit. We've got our own bank that knows the needs of independent agents called InsurBanc and a plethora of legal resources through our Office of General Counsel, as well as legal representation through our state associations.

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Text: Big "I" Advocacy During the Hard Market. 

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So just to crystallize this for you, obviously the top of mind and one of the biggest issues here in the marketplace is facing right now is the hard market and just some of the things that we're doing to advocate for IAs during these very difficult times. 

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Text: Industry Advocacy. Hard Market Member Resources: Big "I" provides a host of tools, resources and technology guidance to assist agents in carrier and customer conversations during hard market. Carrier Meetings & Coalitions: Big "I" is key leader and participant in carrier meetings and advocacy coalitions on hard market and other top insurance issues. Advocacy Forums: Big "I" leaders represent IA voice in various industry speeches, panels, webinars and podcasts on hard market challenges/potential solutions.

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I talked about industry advocacy earlier. Again, advocacy being one of the things we do best. And we have all these hard market member resources that we're providing to help our members through what has been, unfortunately, a rather long, hard market. 

And the technology resources are a critical part of that. But what we also do is things like this. Joining carriers on panels for webinars, for discussions, to have discussions on these really important topics. And then being part of carrier meetings and coalitions as we try to come up with solutions to best help IAs during the hard market.

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Text: Big "I" Alliance. NEW! Best-in-class market access for agency members. Provides start-ups and smaller agencies market access to top national and regional carriers, helping agencies work their way up to rewarding appointments. Direct access to carrier systems/reasonable volume requirements. 3 tiers for participation with placements and appointments options. 

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I mentioned our market access programs earlier. We have just had a new relaunch of our Big "I" Alliance. Now, this is our long-standing market access program, but it's been rebranded. That's best-in-class market access for agency members. You do have to be a Big "I" member to participate, but it really is meant to provide startups, smaller agencies, market access to national and regional carriers. 

And I want to thank Travelers because you are one of our key markets in our market access program as well. And that allows agencies to move their way up from initially the one-off placements to hopefully eventually direct access to carrier systems, with only very reasonable volume requirements. And we have three tiers for participation. And please reach out to us if you'd like to learn more about our Big "I" Alliance.

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Text: Trusted Choice (registered trademark) Hard Market Toolkit. Hard Market Toolkit - helps agents gain greater understanding of the hard market with updates on market trends, economic indicators, and strategic insights, with over 10,000 downloads since release in July 2023! Templates and tips for communicating hard market challenges to clients. Hard Market Toolkit Expansion released September 2024. 

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And earlier I mentioned Trusted Choice and all their offerings. Well, they have released also a Trusted Choice Hard Market Toolkit. First iteration of that was back in '23. As you can see from the slide, at over 10,000 downloads, our members really saw the need for that and have been using it. And we just had a relaunch of that as well, a second iteration last month here in 2024. 

But we don't have to tell our members the things that they have to say to consumers during very difficult times in the hard market. But sometimes a guide does help. And that's what this is about, to give them some of these talking points, these message points that they can utilize as they see fit, as they're trying to explain to consumers why they're seeing some of the coverage difficulties and the premium increases.

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Text: Big "I" (registered trademark) 2025 Key Goals. 1, Provide resources during the hard market, 2, Help members leverage technology and talent, 3, Advocacy for IA's in public policy arena. 

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So as we're looking forward to 2025 and some of the key goals for the association, probably we would have guessed, right? No. 1 is going to be providing resources during the hard market. No. 2 is help members leverage technology and talent, always a perennial need for IAs. And then three is advocacy for IAs in the public policy arena. 

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Text: Big "I" & Future One. 2024 Agency Universe Study. 

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And one of the ways that we do that, and it serves as a guide to direct our goals and direct the focus of the national association going forward, is through the Future One Agency Universe Study. I do want to run through some of the key findings there, but first I just want to give you a little background on Future One. 

The Future One is a coalition between the Big "I" and many of our IA carrier partners. Again, Travelers is very heavily involved in that. Glenn Westrick has actually served as the chair of our Future One coalition in the past. And the purpose of Future One is twofold.

No. 1, it's to coordinate on public policy issues. Not unlike, Joan, what you do for Travelers, those overarching, really important public policy issues. Coordinating with our IA carriers to try to seek consensus on how we can move the needle forward on those really big issues. But the other part of the Future One coalition is it also funds our Agency Universe Study, which is a biennial study hailed as the most comprehensive look at the IA system.

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Text: Agency Universe Study. Biennial study hailed as the most comprehensive look at the independent agency system. Collects statistics on IA's operating in the U.S., including their numbers, revenue base and sources, number of employees, ownership, mix of business, diversification of products, tech usage, non-insurance income sources and marketing methods. 

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It collects a bevy of statistics on independent agents operating all across the United States, their numbers, their revenue base, numbers of employees, ownership, mix of business, diversification of products, tech usage. I can go on and on. And what I'd like to do today, because the timing of this webinar is impeccable, we just had our 2024 AUS release two weeks ago. 

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A page of bar graphs with an up arrow over top and a highlighter. Text: Key Findings. 

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And so let's go through some of the tops of the trees and the key findings. 

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Text: Estimated Total Numbers. The estimated total number of independent agencies stands at 39,000. This is a slight decrease from 2022. These estimates are rounded to the nearest 500 to avoid giving the impression of more precision than they actually have. For details on how these estimates were made, see Appendix B. A bar graph titled Total Number of Independent Agencies, 1996 to 2024, with bars from 1996 to 2024 shown along the x-axis in 2-year increments (except 1998). The tallest bar is 44,000 in 1996. The shortest is 36,000 in 2020. The 2024 bar is at 39,000, down from 40,000 in 2022. 

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We always start out with the overall number of independent agents. As a matter of fact, this is one of the pre-submitted questions from the audience is, how does the current number of independent agencies compare for 20 years ago? 

Well, here's your answer. When you look at 2004, you can see here on the slide, we had 39,000 independent agencies in the United States. 2024. We also have 39,000 independent agencies. Now, that might be surprising to many of you. And certainly, with the M&A, it has led to what I like to call a barbell effect. You've seen a lot of our midsize agencies acquired.

But what you have is the agencies that again, larger on the one end of the barbell. And the other end of the barbell, you have a lot of smaller agencies that are being created. That entrepreneurial spirit of the IA never wanes. And so, the overall level, the overall number of IAs has remained relatively stable.

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Text: Change in Total Revenue: More than 3 in 4 agencies saw revenue increases between 2022 and 2023, significantly more than those reporting an increase between 2020 and 2021. Jumbo agencies are significantly more likely to report an increase (97%) than small agencies (67%), medium-small agencies (77%), medium agencies (78%) and medium-large agencies (86%). For more details, see Appendix A. Two pie charts titled, Change in Total Revenue, one showing 2020 vs. 2021 and the other showing 2022 vs. 2023. For 2020 vs. 2021, the decrease is 25% (average decrease percentage negative 22%). The increase is 62% (average increase percentage 27%). Stay the same, 13%. For 2022 vs. 2023, the decrease is 12% (average decrease percentage negative 24%). The increase is 75% (average increase percentage 26%). Stay the same, 12%. 

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In terms of total revenue, we've seen here significant increase in revenue since the last report in 2022. Comes as no surprise, again, with the hard market. But as we all know, our members are working harder than ever for that revenue. But you've seen significant increase since our last Agency Universe Study. 

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Text: Hard Market: Most Important Activities for Success. Identifying operating efficiencies is the most important factor to succeed in 2024, followed closely by developing talking points about the hard market and coverages for customers. Building an online presence is more important for small agencies (46%), while jumbo agencies more often cite identifying ways to attract and retain staff (61%). A horizontal bar chart titled, Most Important Activities for Success in 2024: % Selected as Top 3. The top activity, at 63%, is Identifying operating efficiencies to more effectively service customers. 

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Now, in terms of the most important activities for success, in asking our agents that question, No. 1 is identifying operating efficiencies to more effectively service customers. Of course, that's what IAs are all about. Developing talking points about the hard market and coverages for customers. Of course, when our members talk, we listen. And that was one of the reasons why we developed this Hard Market Toolkit via Trusted Choice. Because this is also something that we've seen in prior studies. 

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Text: Operational Changes in the Hard Market. Digital service and digital interactions are the biggest operating changes agencies made due to the hard market. Jumbo agencies are more likely to offer more remote work opportunities (38%) and outsource to third-party companies (24%). A horizontal bar graph titled, Operational Changes. Provided more digital service to clients, 32%. Interacted more digitally with carriers, 27%, Changed the products/services we offer, 23%, Offered more remote work opportunities, 13%, Utilized more carrier service support, 12%, Outsourced to third-party companies, 7%, Cancelled/delayed merger/acquisition plans, 7%, Hired more remote staff, 6%, None of these, 35%. 

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In terms of operational changes during the hard market, digital service and digital interactions are the biggest operating changes agencies have made due to the hard market. The larger the agency, right, the more you're likely to make some of these changes. But you can see some of the operational changes that our members are going through currently. 

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Text: Ranking Key Challenges. Finding carriers who will maintain their commitment to the market is a key challenge for agencies, even more so versus 2022. Having carriers who are addressing new personal lines risks by adding new products/services, finding and screening job candidates with strong potential, and growing personal lines business are also top issues in 2024. Small agencies are more concerned about having carriers addressing new personal lines risks by adding new products/services, getting enough leads and having a sufficient advertising/marketing budget to promote their agency. A horizontal bar chart titled, Extent to Which Agencies Find Each Item Challenging. Six out of seven on 7-point scale, 7 equals extremely challenging. 

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So, ranking key challenges. Now, let's get into some of the real important findings. Will come as no surprise that finding carriers who will maintain their commitment to IAs market is No. 1. 

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56%. 

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And you can see from 2022 a very significant increase from 31% to 56%. And that having carriers that are addressing new property and personal insurance risks by adding new products, services and/or coverages also very high on the list. 

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49%. 

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And then some of the typical challenges that our agencies face even outside of the hard market cycle. 

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Text: Attitudes Toward Carriers in the Hard Market. Eleven percent of agencies believe carriers are meeting the challenges of the hard market extremely well, 68% believe carriers are meeting the market challenges moderately well, and 21% of agencies say carriers are meeting the market challenges extremely poorly. A horizontal bar graph with a single bar representing 2024 divided into three percentages, titled Carriers Meeting Challenges of Hard Market. 

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Attitudes towards carriers in the hard market. As you would expect, attitudes have been souring just a bit as our members have been facing the hard market coverage reductions and some comp reductions as well. But let's start with the good news. We'll start from the right in reading this slide. 

So, 11% of agencies believe carriers are meeting the challenges of the hard market extremely well. You've got 68% that believe carriers are meeting those challenges moderately well. And again, no surprise, you've got 21% of agencies saying carriers are meeting the market challenges extremely poorly.

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Text: Electronic and Communication Technologies. The overall use of electronic communications technology is significantly higher than in 2022. E-signature tool use has increased significantly in 2024. A bar graph titled, Electronic and Communication Technologies Used. Text: Use of at least one type of electronic and communication technology increased to 95%, up from 89% in 2022. Side by side bars, representing 2024 and 2022, appear for each technology across the x-axis. E-signature tools (within agency), 2024, 70%, 2022, 61%. 

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In terms of electronic and communication technologies, the overall use of electronic communication technology is significantly higher than in 2022. I think again, in the hard market, our members are trying to leverage technology as much as possible to become more efficient. In particular, they're using more e-signature tools. And the big jump there from 61% to 70% 

And then texting with clients continues to go up as well. Those are the top two here.

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Text: Top 3 Marketing Activities. About half cite social media activities and agency website maintenance among their top three marketing activities, followed by portal technology and search engine optimization. Nearly all engage in at least one marketing activity. A bar graph titled, Selected as One of Top Three Marketing Activities, comparing 2024 and 2022 percentages. 

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And then in terms of the top three marketing activities, you can see that our members continually increase their social footprint, the social media and digital marketing. 

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56% in 2024, 62% in 2022. 

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That's something that's very important to independent agents. And of course, creating and maintaining an agency website is also a real core component of what they provide. And that's why we've spent, at the Big "I", so much effort via Trusted Choice on those digital marketing reviews that we do for our members, as well as we have a new social media tool that I want to talk about a little bit later. 

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48% in 2024, 52% in 2022. 

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Text: Most Important Issues for Carriers to Address. Providing new coverages/products remains the most important issue and has increased significantly since 2022, as has the need for carrier API/AMS integrating solutions and risk mitigation offerings. Interest in having carriers address client cyber risks generally increases with size of the agency. A bar graph titled, Most Important Issues for Carriers to Address (mentioned at least 10%), comparing percentages from 2024 and 2022. 

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So most important issues for carriers to address, again, not rocket science here. Provide new insurance coverage and products to sell. You can see the increase here from 48% to 57%. But here's another one that may be a little surprising, and it's not directly related to the hard market. And that's the carrier interfaces with agency management systems. We need to integrate those solutions. And that's been a long-standing request from IAs, but it really jumped in the last two years, going from 30% to 47%. 

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Text: Thank You. The Big "I" Has Your Back. 

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So I want to thank you for taking the time to listen to the presentation. Now, I really look forward to the dialogue and the discussion with Joan and Sean, and I know that we're going to bring them back in now. 

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A split screen shows Joan, Sean, and Charles, each speaking from their own offices.

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JOAN WOODWARD: All right. Well, Charles, that was just fantastic. I think it's kind of a very high-level overview of what a lot of people who've already submitted questions for our guests today. What I found interesting is the number of insurance agents that are out there are, again, pretty similar to they were 20 years ago. It's just fascinating the data. So, thank you. 

I know there's a lot in there. And I know we'll be able to share some of that information. We'll put that in the chat, folks, in terms of their agency review and survey results. OK. So now, joining us also is my colleague. Again, my friend Sean Ramalho. As I mentioned, Sean is Travelers Executive Vice President for Enterprise Distribution.

In that role, he's responsible for all our distribution strategy, working to identify those opportunities to enhance our company's strategic partnerships. And Sean really has completely revitalized this team. He looks at it through a lens of just an incredible technology expert. He really does ensure that our people, our technology and our processes make it easier for you, our distribution partners.

That is what we love to do is ease of business. And I know Sean has just really kind of upped the game here. So, he's been in the insurance industry, hard to believe, 30 years, joining Travelers in 2006. So, he's been in all sorts of roles, underwriting, you name it. So, Sean, thank you so much for being here. We're really thrilled that you're with us.

SEAN RAMALHO: Thanks for having me, Joan. I'm glad to be here.

JOAN WOODWARD: OK. So let's get right to the hot topic, which is the hard market, right? And how to navigate this market. So, Charles, in your presentation, you talked about what you're hearing from agents about being the hardest market they've seen in a very long time. So, what is the Big "I" doing to help agents navigate through this current marketplace?

CHARLES SYMINGTON: Thank you, Joan. Great question. And as you said, I've been hearing from our agents throughout the country. One of the things that I really wanted to do in my first year as CEO was get out and hear from our agents directly. And I mentioned our structure earlier as a confederation of state associations.

So, I've had the opportunity to talk to hundreds upon hundreds of our members. And what I've really been struck by is how many veteran agents-- agents of 20, 25, 30, 40 years-- that they've said this is the toughest hard market that they've ever seen. So that really has spoken volumes to us. And as I said earlier, when our members speak, we listen.

And I touched upon some of the things we're doing to support them in my PowerPoint. But the Trusted Choice Hard Market Toolkit, the rebranding and relaunch of our Big “I” Alliance, and then leveraging what we like to feel we do best with, which is our advocacy. And in particular, focusing on legal system abuse, which, as we know, is a major contributing factor to the current hard market. And then even within legal system abuse, drilling down even deeper and focusing on third-party litigation funding.

And I think one of the reasons why the Big "I" is so effective when it comes to government affairs, it is because of our structure. I feel like because we have state associations in every single state-- and, of course, we are a state-regulated business-- that is a difference between us and just about every other insurance trade association, both in the agent and broker ranks and even in the carrier ranks with our carrier friends who we work closely with.

And so we have those boots on the ground, both in terms of staff and members, working in the state capitals, working with state legislatures and of course, with the DOIs and with the insurance departments. So I like to call that our grand differentiator at the Big "I." And so, again, we like to leverage that when we can. And looking at some possible solutions to this hard market pressure on our members and on our carrier partners is something that we're doing from a public policy perspective.

JOAN WOODWARD: So before I get to Sean, Charles, I want to drill down on one thing you said-- third-party litigation funding. So can you, No. 1, just quickly explain. I think most people on the call know what that is. How has it grown, and what are you specifically doing? What can be done about the third-party litigation funding?

I know there's a bill out there calling for more transparency and disclosure of who's funding this. But what are you seeing on that one particular issue before we get to Sean?

CHARLES SYMINGTON: Yeah, a great question. So, this is what obviously-- those outside of the parties in the legal dispute come in, invest money. And it's really having a detrimental impact, as I think many viewers know, on the legal system. And I'm a recovering insurance defense attorney, I like to call myself. I practiced before I worked on Capitol Hill.

And so this is something that I certainly experienced when I was in private practice. And you talked about transparency. And that's one of the ways we're trying to tackle this, is really from two different angles. It's increasing transparency. And also, now we're exploring-- and I know this is right up your alley, Joan, because you used to work for Senator Roth on the Hill-- also exploring maybe a change in tax treatment to the awards, from the third-party litigation funding.

So at the federal level, we support legislation to increase that transparency, bring in a little sunshine. It's called the Protecting Our Courts from Foreign Manipulation Act. And that's kind of more of an insidious part of this. There's a lot of foreign monies coming in. But the very least, you want to increase transparency there.

And so, there's a federal bill that's been introduced that we support. I believe Travelers supports it as well. Lead sponsors in the house are House Speaker Mike Johnson. In the Senate, it's Senator John Kennedy, as well as Joe Manchin. Obviously, whenever you can have a leader of a party in a chamber, whether it's a Republican or a Democrat, be the lead on your bill, that's pretty good out of the gate.

And so, we're hoping to make a little progress there. But then we're also now trying to create a coalition on the Hill. It's called the Americans for Litigation Tax Fairness. And that then tackles it the second way that I described. That's the potential tax treatment of these awards. And the tax would be levied solely on third-party funders, on the investors, and would not levy a new tax on plaintiffs-- not on plaintiffs’ attorneys. It's just those investors.

And so, we're trying to have legislation introduced probably early next Congress that would levy this new tax on the investors themselves. And then, of course, a lot of what happens in legal reform is at the state level. These bills only would apply to federal court. So for state courts, there's been some activity in state legislatures. A handful of states have passed legislation on third-party litigation funding. Montana, West Virginia, Indiana, Louisiana, those come to mind.

And most of these laws contain similar elements. They, of course, want to encourage transparency. They want to limit foreign investment, not unlike what we're talking about at the federal level. But they also want to take a look at what elements are in these TPLF contracts. They want to provide customers with a right of rescission-- really important-- prohibiting any decision-making role for those third-party funders.

So, things along those lines. So, pretty consistent. But the other thing that's happening at the state level right now-- and I know Travelers is engaged in this, as are we-- the National Conference of Insurance Legislators is in the process of drafting a model act. And of course, model acts that are drafted or model regulations that come from the NAIC, the National Association of Insurance Commissioners can serve as those templates that other states can implement or adopt.

And so it's really important that the industry is on the same page, engaged on this NCOIL model act drafting process that's going on right now. Because it can really be very important going forward.

JOAN WOODWARD: Well, Charles, that's a lot. And let me tell you, the third-party litigation funding is a really hot topic, which is why I wanted to make sure you drill down. And so everybody understands on this call how important this topic is, what you're doing to help. And I think if you attack it through the tax code, first of all, it's very innovative of you versus just a transparency bill, which I know is working its way through Congress.

So, good luck on all that. We're going to talk in a minute about other things you're working on. OK. So Sean, to you. So this hard market now we've been in for how long, in your view? And then what are we doing at Travelers, really, to help our agent and broker carriers work with us as a lead carrier on a lot of these things?

SEAN RAMALHO: So, Joan, let me first start by thanking Charles for his incredible leadership of the Big "I"’s association. Clearly, you heard the complex marketplace that we're in. And Charles and the Big "I" does a fantastic job of providing our agents and brokers that we do business with, that we rely on to deliver our products and services, helping them navigate what is truly a complex and ever-changing marketplace.

So, Charles, thanks to you and your leadership at the Big "I." And similar to what Charles is doing, we are thinking about ways to support our agents and brokers to support what they have to do as they work through the hard market, which is a market-- some would say it's unlike anything that they've ever seen before. In each of our business units, we are actively helping the agents navigate the marketplace.

I think you heard Charles talk about the communication and education component coming out of the Agency Universe work that was done, and the importance of getting out to our agents and brokers early. Communication is key. And they need that information to help their customers navigate the marketplace.

One example of what we're doing in Travelers is our Personal Insurance group, they develop educational material that they can put into the hands of our agents and consumers to help them understand the market dynamics. Some tangible things that we have done, in addition to communication, is we've created auto and home insurance market guides that they can use to understand things like the legal system challenges that we're having, the weather, etc., etc., that all play a part in the hard market dynamics that we're dealing with.

We've developed a pivot agency workshop, which is a virtual program designed to prepare agents for the future of insurance. It helps them navigate the current condition and identify and deal with customer trends. We're doing the same thing in our Business Insurance groups as well, all centered around putting communication in the hands of our agents, so that they can educate their customers and allow them to understand what is really driving up this hard market and how we together can navigate through it.

JOAN WOODWARD: That's great. Actually, I have a personal story. I've been a Travelers customer for over 30 years, Sean. And just a couple of days ago when I got my email saying, you can look at your new policy, you renewed, it says, why are my rates going up? What are the things contributing, what are the factors contributing to why rates are going up?

And it really explained in plain English, I'll have to say, which is good for me, why things are what they are and the landscape and the environment that we're working with to try to, again, hold on to customers, get new customers. So I give the personal lines business, at least from my perspective-- I don't have a commercial account-- great kudos for explaining it to people who may not be so sophisticated in insurance policy talk.

Thank you for that. So I want to go back to Charles for a second. Other than third-party litigation, what else are you working on on Capitol Hill? And is TRIA up or what's going on with FEMA, the flood program, NFIP? I mean, what are the issues that you're working on today? And maybe you talk about-- we're going to talk about the election in a minute. But what's ahead of us in the next two years and on your plate right now?

CHARLES SYMINGTON: Yeah, thank you. Great question. And you mentioned, right, NFIP. And, of course, that's going to be top of mind after the hurricanes hit. And the NFIP was extended through December 20. It's part of the federal funding legislation. But I think now you're going to see greater scrutiny on the NFIP. It's already in debt.

They've got about $15 billion that they can utilize in paying out claims as a result of these hurricanes, these devastating hurricanes. And as I think many of your viewers know, the NFIP also has a certain amount of borrowing authority. So when you have the $5 billion on hand and then another $9.9 billion of borrowing authority, you got that total of $15 billion and about to see the losses. But they could blow through that pretty quickly.

And so, you might need federal action. Not only to extend the program, but to either raise that bar and cap the NFIP, or-- some would argue-- forgive some of the debt. We have been longstanding supporters of trying to modernize the program itself. That's been difficult. And we've been met with some reluctance on the Hill to make major change to the program.

But, of course, first and foremost, you got to make sure the program is extended and it doesn't expire. And thank goodness we were successful working with Travelers and others in getting that done before Congress left town here. And we're talking about the election because they're all campaigning now. But thank goodness we extended the NFIP or we'd really be in a tough spot with these hurricanes.

So the federal insurance programs, like the NFIP, like the Federal Crop Insurance Program, like the Terrorism Risk Insurance Program, that's where we spend a lot of our time at the federal level. As a matter of fact, when I worked on Capitol Hill, I was one of the insurance counsels that helped draft TRIA. And that doesn't expire here in the immediate future, but in a couple of years it will.

And that, again, is one of those programs that's really important to the market that we're going to have to work closely with Travelers and other carriers. But also, beyond that, working with the commercial policyholder community to make sure that TRIA is extended. Because at the end of the day, we really need the policyholder involvement to make progress on some of these huge legislative goals.

And I would say that also dovetails nicely with legal system abuse and third-party litigation funding. When the industry is working together, it means a great deal. But we really need to bring in the policyholders as well. Because those on the other side of that debate are always going to be armed and spending a tremendous amount of resources.

So the more that we can bring policyholders into the public policy arena, who are agents explaining how these public policy issues impact customers and their coverage and their premiums and through Travelers and of course, through this institute, really important to connect those dots for policyholders as well. And then in terms of-- so those are some of the issues we're working on now at the federal level.

And then looking towards next Congress, it's taxes, taxes, taxes. They had the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act that passed in 2017, had some very significant tax relief for C corporations. But for many of our folks that are organized as pass-through businesses, individual tax relief and the very important 199A small business tax deduction, well, that tax deduction and the individual tax reductions, those rate reductions are going to expire at the end of next year.

That C corp rate is permanent, but there's talk about reopening that as well. And so I think everything's going to be on the table next Congress when it comes to taxes. And so that probably will-- after dealing with the aftermath of the hurricanes and maybe the NFIP, I think a lot of the attention will turn to tax reform and trying to get bipartisan agreement on that. And I know you have a question on the election after that, and we'll talk about how Congress may play out.

JOAN WOODWARD: Yeah, I just want to reiterate for everyone listening on the phone. So those tax-- usually when you put in tax policy changes, Congress and the president signs it. Those are permanent. But the last tax bill in 2017, the tax cuts and all the reform, it expires, folks. And so for every individual on this call who got a tax cut in their personal lives, you will see your taxes go up if Congress does nothing. It will automatically expire.

So that's a really important point. And the pass through for small businesses, the C corp, all those. Thank you for working on that on all of our behalf. So, Charles, let's quickly talk about the election because it's on everyone's mind. And we want to be very nonpartisan here. We don't want to talk about either candidate, but what is the impact? Let's stick to what the impact on the insurance industry of the upcoming election just for a minute. And then, Sean, we're getting back to you.

CHARLES SYMINGTON: Thank you, Joan. Yeah, so because we're a state-regulated industry, sometimes I feel that people lose sight of all the ways that the federal government and federal elections can impact the insurance market. And we just talked about some of those ways just now. And just to follow up on your point, on the pass throughs, a lot of our members, our small businesses have built those tax rates, those reductions and have built that small business tax deduction into their operations.

And so they're planning on that going forward. And they're reinvesting in their small businesses in the independent agencies. So for them, if these aren't extended, if these provisions sunset, it's like the federal government coming back in and taking money right out of your pocket. And again, because our members largely reinvest that in their small businesses, you have a really detrimental impact on their businesses, their customers, their employees and the overall IA system.

So that is a crystal-clear way that a federal election can have an impact on our industry. And obviously, through the debates surrounding these federal insurance programs that we talked about earlier. And another way that the federal election could impact the insurance market is there's always a debate. Sometimes it's more out in the open and it's a larger public policy debate. Sometimes it's something that's a little more behind the scenes.

But it's how much is the federal government going to get involved in the insurance market? And so, again, if we see these major hurricanes, the feds are going to be watching. And in some instances, it's probably warranted that they're going to get involved. But in other instances, I know a lot of people on this webinar are supporters of the state insurance regulatory system, as are we.

And so it's one of our jobs to always guard against unfair, unreasonable encroachment from the federal government on the state insurance regulatory system. So that's another way that the election and federal issues can really impact the day-to-day business of our members and carriers like Travelers.

JOAN WOODWARD: OK. Thank you for that. Sean, we're going to get right back to you because it seems that-- let's talk about the independent agent channel. It seems that every few years, there's a new trend or maybe a new technology that could replace or reduce the number of independent insurance agents. But the sector really is, according to Charles’s study, remains strong as ever. So, what are your thoughts? And what are you seeing about the resilience of the independent channel?

SEAN RAMALHO: Joan, I think Charles did a really nice job of answering that question in a kind of a circuitous kind of way. Because if you look at the numbers of the IA over the years, it's almost remained constant in spite of the consolidation and M&A activity. But that's a testament to the resilience of that group, the independent agent channel.

And I think it just comes down to a few things that make that-- the independent agents so resilient and so much of a stable in economy and society from what we do. You think about things that we're experiencing now, and Charles touched on the issue from legal system abuse to the changing weather patterns to expanding and new and upcoming risks such as cyber. Think about all those things and the complexity that it brings and the importance of the insurance product.

And then educating the customer on ways to protect their assets and ways to navigate the change in landscape that we're all dealing with. And the only way that that can be effectively done is really with the expertise of an independent agent. So I think even as their M&A activity, even as their technology that would somehow replace or disintermediate the channel, I think the importance and the resiliency becomes more and more heightened as these things evolve and as society changes.

JOAN WOODWARD: So skipping ahead, a few questions here, Sean, back to you on the future. So what is the future? Take us out five years, maybe 10 years. Because as we just saw on Charles's charts, things haven't really changed that much with the independent channel. I mean, I remember 10 years ago when people were so worried about direct to consumer, right, taking over the whole persona lines business.

So, we have not seen that. People were worried about that trend. Very worried, I know. But what are you seeing in the future? What do you think the changes-- obviously, you touched on cyber. So will there be cyber products now for personal lines? I mean, what do you see happening? We are always evolving on our products. And that's really our expertise, is we have a plethora across all industries of new products and innovative products coming out. But what do you see the appetite is, maybe, or what are you-- what are you looking in the future for the agents?

SEAN RAMALHO: Yeah. So, Joan, I think down the road you will continue to see changes, changes in that space, in the IA space. I think what you will see is as technology becomes more and more part of what drives how the independent agent shows up in the marketplace, they will have better data. They will have better analysis and insights into what a customer needs are, how those trends are changing.

And they'll be able to inform or educate or partner with carriers like Travelers to develop new products to suit customer needs. So I think the future is going to look as bright as it is today, even though it's going to be a little bit complex. And there's going to be some things that we haven't foreseen yet. I think you just mentioned cyber in the personal lines space. And more and more, we hear about cyber, we hear about the big ones that hit the news-- the news media.

But certainly there, that type of risk is starting to encroach into the personal lines space, where people are seeing their cell phones or their laptops being hacked into. So the complexity, the need and I think the product that will be put forth to help address those needs will continue to be bright. It will be an exciting future, I think. And it will solidify the need and the importance and the value of the independent agent.

I am a huge believer. Through our business, a huge believer. And we think that segment of the economy, that segment of businesses will remain strong.

JOAN WOODWARD: I agree. I agree. And I talk to agents just like you do every day. And it's my favorite part of the day. Charles, let's go back to your study. Because I want to see if there were any surprises in this year's Agency Universe Study that you saw. What surprised you about it? Anything?

CHARLES SYMINGTON: Yeah, well, one finding that surprised me to a certain extent was the number of agencies that are organized as pass-through businesses, and that's 85%. Now, this confirms what we saw a couple of years ago. That was also around 85%. But I thought, to be frank, the number from 2022 was an aberration. Because traditionally and historically, in terms of the percentage of our folks organized as pass throughs, it's been more 65%.

And so that was a huge jump in 2022. But now it's confirmed in '24. And again, that speaks to the importance, not to reiterate it, of our engagement on these small business tax issues for our members. And if I could just follow up on what Sean was saying on the future of the IA system, and you, Joan. I couldn't agree with you both more.

I'm really excited. I believe the future is bright. And the hard market's difficult, certainly, on IAs. But I'll tell you who it’s more difficult on. It's more difficult on captive agents, it's more difficult on direct writers. Because I think the hard market really highlights the strengths of the independent agency system. It's choice, it's customization, it's advocacy.

And there's the old saying that the grass is always greener on the other side. Well, in this instance, I think the grass is greener right where IAs stand right now. And I think you're starting to see the marketplace respond, right, to all the things that IAs bring to the table. And you're seeing captive agents, many captive agents now convert to independent agents.

And now you're starting to see some major carriers, national carriers, direct carriers that would probably have been a surprise several years ago, start now diversifying their distribution model to include IAs. So the proof's in the pudding. And you're starting to see these changes and this gravitational pull towards independent agents as a distribution mechanism.

Now, of course, Travelers saw this eons ago, so you're ahead of the curve. But I think as others see it, I'm really excited about where this is going to go.

JOAN WOODWARD: All right. Let's talk about technology. Because you're talking about IAs, independent agents. Let's talk about AI. OK, we'll flip the letters there. Technology to you, Charles, I mean, you've been involved in this industry for just so long and technology is always changing, rapidly changing. We like to say we use our technology to meet our customers where they want to be met, right?

Think about that seamless experience you just had on Amazon with one little click. All your products are there, all your choices are there. So how has technology evolved in your eyes, Charles? And maybe throw in, sprinkle in a little on the AI? Are you seeing use cases in independent channels for AI? And how is the Big "I" kind of thinking about this?

CHARLES SYMINGTON: Yeah, great question. And I touched upon some of the technological changes in the Agency Universe Study that that's indicating. But in particular on AI, as our members leverage technology to the greatest extent possible, they are starting now to rely on AI. And I think it's a slower adoption.

There's still a little bit of trepidation on what AI might mean for the IA system. But I do see them starting to lean on it a bit, and particularly for their marketing. And I think that's only going to increase. And, of course, I think our members will-- this will, I think, increase substantially. I think you're going to see a huge jump between our members' reliance on AI from the '24 Agency Universe Study to the '26 Agency Universe Study.

Because it'll allow our members to do what they do best, right? Be those salespeople. Be active in their local communities. It'll free them up from a lot of the administrative tasks that you just have to do as a small business owner or as a small business employee. And so, I think as the veil is kind of lifted from AI and all the benefits it can have for IAs, I think it will be largely embraced by our membership.

JOAN WOODWARD: And Sean, same question to you on the technology front. I know you took a deep dive in technology for the last three years for our company, and thank you for doing that. With regard to agents and brokers, what are you seeing on trends? Are you more optimistic now than you were three years ago when you were tasked to take this-- on that role?

SEAN RAMALHO: Oh, absolutely, Joan. I think I'm probably going to sound like a bit of a broken record because I am more optimistic today than I was ever, especially when it comes to technology and how it's going to impact the independent agent, things like AI and then other technological advances that we're seeing.

And what I think it's really going to do, and unlike where we were probably five or six years ago, where we talked a lot about AI or technology replacing the independent agent, I think now we're more focused, and we're seeing opportunities where it's going to enhance what the independent agent do. I mean, it's allowing our agents and brokers to reimagine their business models, right?

Whether it's through centralization of process or reorganizing go-to-market strategy, looking at market trends and being better stewards of their-- for their customers and driving them to a place where they have better protection for their exposures. It's allowing independent agents to grab accurate information about what exposures exist for one of-- for any one of their customers.

So, I think it just-- technology is really taking that expertise level of the independent agent to a whole other level. The other thing that I've seen technology really do is it's taking some of our larger and more sophisticated agents. It's opened a whole new world of how they think about hiring people.

Ten years ago, independent agents really had all insurance people on staff. And now you're seeing them go out and hire data engineers and chief technology officers. And again, they're looking for ways to make their operation more efficient, but also make the trade more efficient with the carriers that they do business with. So I think that technology now is just being seen as a way to really open up new doors and new opportunities and new ways to independent agents to service their customers and interact with their carriers.

JOAN WOODWARD: OK, great. So now I want to get to audience questions. And we have a ton coming in, so I'm really going to try to get to a lot of them. A single thread throughout a lot of them that I was just reading is marketplace dynamics. And so, to both of you-- Charles can go first, I guess.

What are those new trends and developments are you seeing in the marketplace? I know we're in a hard market, but let's fast-forward 18 months, two years. Where do you think the trends are?

CHARLES SYMINGTON: Yeah, and I think that right now, sitting here today, I think that a lot of that will probably be determined by the impact of Hurricane Milton. Because we always want to get better. And I think that a lot of things, particularly in the Florida market, we're going to need to change the way the marketplace works.

But from an IA perspective, talked about it earlier, it's the leveraging of technology. It's this increased use of AI. And I'll tell you, the Big "I", from an association perspective, we’re always trying to demystify technology for our members. I mentioned our Trusted Choice products earlier, the free digital reviews that we give our members to have so they can bring their A game on their websites.

Also, in terms of AI in particular, I talked about our Trusted Choice Hard Market Toolkit. Well, now we put out an AI toolkit for our members. Because we want them to use AI, we want them to leverage AI. And so we want to incentivize that. So that's another recent offering from Trusted Choice.

And then I'll tell you, I'm really excited about a couple of new partnerships with our state associations. Because a lot of the best ideas bubble up from the ground up. And in this case, I believe that is the case. And so two new technology initiatives that now we are partnering with our states on, and they could be game changers for our members, one is Catalyit.

And Catalyit is an enterprise launched by a number of our state associations. And that guides individual independent agencies in selecting, investing and implementing a whole bevy of tech solutions for their agencies. It's largely consulting of sorts. So really excited that now we're partnering with our states there.

And then 101 Weston Labs, which came about primarily from our North Carolina state association. And 101 Weston Labs is an InsurTech accelerator incubator. And these innovative companies that come through this syndicate, and then we're able to invest in these companies through 101 Weston Labs. They are solely focused on increasing technology usage and making the life easier from a technological viewpoint of IAs.

So it's really nice to have them focused on really how to assist IAs in the technology space. So I'm personally just really excited about both of those ventures.

JOAN WOODWARD: OK, that's great. Thank you for that, Sean, did you want to add anything to that? I wasn't sure if you--

SEAN RAMALHO: No, I think Charles covered it well. And the only thing that I would probably add to what Charles said is I think technology has created a whole new ecosystem around the insurance-- the insurance environment, where there's tons of new tech companies that have been started. And are solely, really, to support what the insurance industry is doing. And it's forcing us to think about the insurance industry different.

And it's putting information at the tips of underwriters and insurers and agents' hands so that we can all pivot easy. So I think that whole new ecosystem that's being created around the insurance industry is brand new. And I think technology is going to continue to really expand that.

JOAN WOODWARD: OK, great. We're going to rattle off some rapid-fire questions here. So maybe this is going to be for Charles. This is from Toby Tiffany out in Denver. Hey, Toby. What is the one area where independent insurance agents may be stronger or weaker? We've talked about the stronger. So let's focus a little bit more on the weaker position.

So what-- if there's an area, Charles, if you had to pick one or two areas, where is the IA channel weaker positioned for the future than they may even realize themselves? And I think it's always good to do a constructive look, constructive criticism, to help folks out there.

CHARLES SYMINGTON: Right. This is a hard one because I don't think there are many places where the IA system is weaker. But I'll put my iconoclast hat on here.

JOAN WOODWARD: OK.

CHARLES SYMINGTON: I would say I mentioned this earlier, that there's this barbelling effect in the independent agency system. And we talked about the numbers, right? It's largely stable at 39,000 independent agencies. But at the one end, our members are getting larger. And then, at the other end, there are smaller agencies that are coming into the business.

It's that middle space. That is dwindling because you're seeing the M&A. And so that does concern me a little bit, that we have to continue to support the smaller agencies to help them grow and thrive to get to that middle market point. And when I say middle market, I don't mean middle market in terms of selling insurance, but middle market in terms of a mid-sized independent agency.

And that's why the Big "I" is so focused right now on tools that smaller agencies can use. When you look at our overall membership, I mentioned the numbers earlier, 86% of our members are under seven employees.

JOAN WOODWARD: Under seven employees? Seven or 70?

CHARLES SYMINGTON: Seven.

JOAN WOODWARD: Seven. At what percent? 80%, you said?

CHARLES SYMINGTON: Yes, over 80%.

JOAN WOODWARD: Oh, wow.

CHARLES SYMINGTON: Thanks to this trend, right? And we have some really large members, as you would guess. And we have now a large number of smaller members. And so we, as an association, have to find a way to help these smaller agencies, No. 1, thrive, stay in business, but also grow. To fill back that middle part of the IA system.

JOAN WOODWARD: OK, good, good. All right. Another question coming in. This is from Anonymous. So, can you talk more about what the Big "I" Alliance is versus just the Big "I"? Is there a specific secondary membership to join the Big "I" Alliance?

CHARLES SYMINGTON: Great, great question. So, the Big "I" Alliance is a rebrand and relaunch of sorts of our market access program. And our market access programs go back many, many years. And it's really twofold. One is the one-off placements, right, that we allow Big "I" members. It's not separate. If you're a Big "I" member, you get access to Big "I" Alliance.

But you do have to be a Big "I" member. So hopefully we get some new members from today's webinar. But we have three tiers. We've got Blue, we got Blue Plus, and we've got Gold. And the Blue and the Blue Plus are really-- it's more of the entry-level market access part of our program that get us those one-off placements, hard-to-write risks, agents, smaller agents that are finding it difficult to find insurance for their customers.

And then we hope to take agencies from that level to the Gold level, which is more like a traditional alliance. Although it's not meant to compete with the many alliances that are out there right now. In fact, to a certain extent, it's almost going to serve as a farm system for those alliances. So again, focusing on the smaller agent. It's an alliance for smaller agencies.

Now to be a Gold member, there is a fee associated with that. But then you get direct access to carrier appointments and information, very reasonable volume requirements. And that is meant to help those smaller agencies deal with the very challenging marketplace and some of these volume requirements that we're seeing from a number of our carrier partners. And then it's for the smaller agents. So eventually, that may serve as a farm system of sorts for some of the other alliances that are in existence.

JOAN WOODWARD: OK. Thank you for that explanation. I don't think everyone on this call understood the differentiation. So, another question coming in from Peter Toft. What do we tell clients about the NFIP FEMA program when they question claims-paying ability when they're so deep in the red?

I mean, this is a real concern. And even before these two hurricanes we're seeing in the last couple of weeks here, just explaining to customers when they hear that FEMA is bankrupt, I mean, is the federal government going to always pay these claims even though FEMA might be bankrupt? I mean, Charles, this is, again, I think, more of a question for you.

CHARLES SYMINGTON: Yeah, it's a great question. And, as I said earlier, you've got about $15 billion right in the bank right now. But that could go pretty quick depending on how Hurricane Milton goes. I don't see the federal government not standing by the NFIP, in terms of the claims-paying ability.

So, they could handle it in a couple of different ways. They could-- I alluded to this earlier. They could just increase the cap on the current borrowing authority, the amount of money the NFIP can borrow from the Treasury. Or-- and/or they could forgive some of the current NFIP debt. But I do not see the federal government in any way, at this point, shutting down the claims-paying ability of the NFIP. Certainly not after the devastation that we all expect, unfortunately.

Now, but that does lead to another question that if the NFIP is in such debt, what reforms do you look at for the NFIP going forward? I mean, to put it on a more sound financial footing, so that you don't just keep kicking the can down the road and either forgive debt or increase the cap. You've got to make the program run more efficiently. And that's something that we've been trying to push for a number of years and have not been met with great success up to this point.

JOAN WOODWARD: OK. Thank you for that. Keep working at it, though. OK, Sean, this is the question for you. Because there's a lot of questions coming in the Q&A on this particular topic. And I think you've been just masterful in helping us shepherd a program through our HR department, if you will, which is a lot of agents want to hire and recruit young people into our industry. And it's just not as sexy as some other industries.

And so, Sean, I know you've worked hard on our EDGE program. And if you could talk about what that is. And also reaching into high schools, into local high schools and educating our seniors or juniors who may not be on the college track and talking about, Sean, what you see in recruiting and retaining talent. And also diverse talent. Because our country, as we all know, is becoming more and more diverse.

And you've been a leader in this, Sean. I know you're part of NAAIA, which is National African-American Insurance Association and other groups that we work regularly with. But Sean, what has been successful here at Travelers to recruit and retain-- retaining talent is also just as difficult. Because, again, young people tend to jump to a competitor for a few thousand dollars raise. And we want to make sure our young people are engaged in our business.

So that question has come up a lot in the Q&A. So talk to us, Sean, about some strategies for maybe smaller mom and pop shops to recruit, maybe even out of high school.

SEAN RAMALHO: Yeah, so Joan, thanks for that question. It's one that you know I'm very passionate about. And kind of going back to the earlier question that Charles answered, I think that's an area where the industry is actually weaker, it’s retaining, attracting younger talent and certainly diverse talent.

But I think what Travelers has done really well is we were deliberate and have been deliberate about it. We recognize that there's a challenge of attracting, retaining younger and diverse talent. And we are putting things in place. You mentioned EDGE. We partner with local colleges, and we are looking for talent in places we didn't look for in the past. So that's one other strategy.

But I think the next step in us, as an industry, solving and really driving and being effective at changing the dynamics here is to recognize it's not a Travelers problem. It's not an agency problem. It's an industry challenge that we have.

And I think if we, as an industry, are deliberate about what we're doing, deliberate about the programs we're going to put in place, deliberate about the outcomes we're looking for, and then find partnerships where we can align our programs, align our resources and jointly go about trying to fix and solve for this problem, I think that'll be the next really powerful step of how we can move the needle forward in both retaining, attracting and getting diverse candidates in the door.

JOAN WOODWARD: Thank you. And I think another thing is, if you're looking for young talent out there, go look at the risk management schools. So there's a lot of them. There's St. John's University, University of South Carolina, the Katie School in Chicago, University of Texas has programs in risk management.

And look to those universities to recruit some of that talent. And I know there's a lot of great young people out there. Did you want to add anything on that, Charles? Do you have any programs or projects in place for recruiting?

CHARLES SYMINGTON: We do. And I mentioned our D&I program earlier and Travelers’ engagement through the Diversity Council. Of course, very important for us to continue to bring in a more diverse, independent agent population. And then in terms of young agents, I mentioned that program as well.

And we have our Invest Foundation as well. And what that does is it's meant to educate high school students, community college students, junior college students on the opportunities that exist in the insurance industry. And we're trying to have more of a focus now also on second careers. Those individuals want to make a jump from a primary career, secondary career, come look at insurance. Look at the opportunities in the overall insurance industry, and in particular, in the IA space.

JOAN WOODWARD: Great. Well, listen, guys. The hour's just flown past here. And Sean and Charles, thank you so much for all the work you're doing for independent agents and brokers out there. Keep up the good work. Thank you both.

SEAN RAMALHO: Thanks for having me.

CHARLES SYMINGTON: Thanks for having me. Great seeing you, Sean.

SEAN RAMALHO: Likewise, Charles.

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JOAN WOODWARD: All right, folks. So take our survey. It's in the chat right now. Please let us know what you thought of today's program and let us know what else you're interested in and future programming. Also, don't forget to listen to our podcast. We have a new podcast, the Travelers Institute Risk and Resilience podcast. So when you're gardening or skiing or golfing, take us up on the podcast. 

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A red microphone icon. Text: Travelers Institute, Risk and Resilience. Logos: Travelers Institute (registered trademark), Travelers. 

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I also hope you'll join us for upcoming programs.

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Text: Upcoming Webinars: October 23: AI in Action: The Future of Risk Management Through Predict and Prevent. Register: travelersinstitute.org.

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So for the next couple of weeks, we have, on October 23, The Institutes’ Peter Miller is going to discuss his thoughts on the transformative potential of Predict and Prevent modeling in risk management and a lot about artificial intelligence. So don't forget to do that. That's on October 23. 

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Text: Cyber: Prepare, Prevent, Mitigate, Restore (registered trademark). Logo: Travelers Institute (registered trademark), Travelers, 15 Years. Tour Date: October 30, Philadelphia, PA. Last Stop! National Cybersecurity Education Tour, Fall 2024. October 30, Philadelphia, PA. Register: travelersinstitute.org. 

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And then we have a few more stops on our National Cyber Education Tour. So we are in Irvine, California, tomorrow. If you're in Southern California, it's not too late to register. Go to travelersinstitute.org. And then we'll be in the Philadelphia area on October 30. 

Please register for those programs. We dropped a link in the chat.

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Wednesdays with Woodward (registered trademark) Webinar Series. Watch: travelersinstitute.org. Logo: Linked In. Text: Connect: Joan Kois Woodward. Listen: Wherever you get your pods. 

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I hope everyone has a terrific and safe-- please pray for our friends in Florida and up that-- up that coast over the next few days. Take care, my friends. Bye. 

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Logos: Travelers Institute (registered trademark), Travelers. Text: travelersinstitute.org.